coldnebo

Well, at least this thread opens up a whole new possibility: a zed survival simulator, the opposite of DAYZ, where the NPCs are the survivors and bandits and the players are zeds!! :)

yeah, you've got a point. ZED RAGE is starting to whittle away at the gameplay and maybe it just turns it into an aggro-autoplay experience at that point. (still, even that could be a fun interlude between deaths -- the minigame is trying to see how many of your zed friends you can train before you get aggrod and lose control, killed, etc.) I thought it also might add to excitement by reducing the predictability of zed spawning. There's all these great scenarios in my head, but it's likely the reality of it would be broken as people are suggesting. So perhaps NPC zed changes along @lights' ideas could be considered, plus the following: * zeds are a probability density function around targets x the area's resource counter. * when zeds are killed, it reduces the resource multiplier, thus reducing the effective spawns in that area for a time. This enables a team to thin and potentially "take over" a location for a time, with constant vigilance. * resource counter increases back to a set point over a defined time interval, unless continually pruned. * for extra credit, the function can be a "predator/prey" model using parameters for the current number of zeds in the area along with the number of players in the area. This is more nuanced than simply spawning k*number of players zeds around a target. Instead the size of each population determines the probability of a certain number of zeds being there and isn't a simple linear relationship: http://www.scholarpe...ator-prey_model predator/prey means that the number of zeds could increase realistically with the size of the player population in an area -- meaning that while it's possible to initially control an area by thinning, as more people move in it can drastically increase the number of probable zed spawns over time. (i.e. the p/p model value is very high even though the resource count would be very low from thinning. The product of the two still might overtake the region eventually and acts as a control against organized permanent take over of areas. i.e. if you go in as a team and take over a town sloppily (lots of player deaths) the zombies (predators) are well fed, and their population shoots off the map. but, if you're more careful and don't die, then maybe you can hold it a while. if you leave the area, then the resource multiplier gradually returns to the default zed pop number. *a cpu cheap and easy p/p model is the logistic function, it can be called to set the spawn multiplier at 5 minute intervals or such. Anyway, this is fun and I look forward to the number of changes the devs have on the way!

@lights, here's a couple ideas regarding the possible short-comings: re: lore - zeds are mindlessly aggressive. yes and no. If I creep into a barn, I spawn more zeds out of nowhere. While they wander pseudo aimlessly, they do turn towards you at the oddest times. Also, if they aggro, they will follow you for miles, even when you are in the back of the truck. Super-vision and fast sprinting speed don't exactly paint the zeds as completely mindless (like "Night of the Living Dead"), more like "28 Days" where you can almost see the former, but insanely maddened intelligence of the father after getting infected by his carrier wife. So, from a lore point of view, I don't think it necessarily precludes zombies that can act more intelligently. BUT, they are zombies. Something's not quite right in their heads. Zed players might have blurry or warped vision that gives them only a close range advantage (aka, you can't dodge the sniper on the hill because you can't see clearly that far). But waiting inside a building to jump on some poor guy who's looking for bean and ammo... sure! That's what DAYZ is all about. :) The camping issue is a bigger problem. Here's one idea (but not a total solution): when players turn zed, like I said, they can't use weapons, drive, etc. Well, let's add that they also can't equip anything in inventory or drop anything after that either. This means when you turn zed, you also become attractive as a loot source depending on what you were carrying when it happened. Now, that doesn't prevent people from dropping all their stuff before they turn zed, turning and then running out... (heh, I imagine your idea of evil clans "farming" zeds this way). Then again, something that merges our two ideas might be as follows: ZED RAGE: Although at normal times, you control the zed as I previously described, when you are attacked or within a certain range of a normal player, you will automatically RAGE -- i.e. you no longer control the zed, and the NPC zombie code takes over, aggroing, killing anyone *indiscriminately* and taking whatever crazed risks the normal NPC zeds take. Get shot in the legs or cripple yourself running off stairs... hello, you are now a crawling zed. much less dangerous. Of course, you can always commit suicide if you can climb a tall ladder or find a cliff... hmmm. ALSO: player zeds like NPC zeds cannot run faster than normals. Melee costs movement just like with NPC zeds, so zed players are effectively harmless to running normals who know how to evade them. The only way to regain zed control is to be deaggroed. This reduces the camping/spawning tricks available a couple ways. One, if clans try to incubate players as zeds, they stand a good chance of have their mate RAGE on them and get the whole clan infected, losing gear and guns, etc. Of course, the clan could go all itemless, and individually strive to be infected and then setup groups in woods, etc. But even this is more strategic than tactical. By eliminating direct control in the presence of normals, there's no way to micromanage the NPC AI or tightly control group actions. Imagine a zed clan camps the beach, a new (but slightly experienced) player spawns on the beach, sees the zeds, they all RAGE aggro him, he runs to his clan in the woods. One of his team mates sees the long line of zeds and pops a grenade at the back of them. GAME BALANCED BITCHES! lol. Well, maybe... (there's a lot of ways to bend the rules) Players have to be sneaky and clever to survive. Well, so do player zeds, I think.

Apologies if others have talked about this idea, but I only saw a couple general references to the idea in forum searches, and nothing as specific as what I'm thinking, so here goes: What if players could be zombies? I'm not talking about a trivial "choose your role: player or zed" thing here, I have a more subtle idea... here's how I'm thinking it might work... You always start out as a normal player. You can play, get killed, etc. But infection doesn't just pose the threat of weakening you, it may turn you into a zed! Then, all your priorities change. You have a certain amount of health, but just like players you gradually get hungry. You don't pass out from injuries like players (you have extraordinary stamina), but as you get weaker, you may be forced to hop or crawl (just like the other zeds we've seen). Your attacks become entirely melee based (i.e. you may keep your inventory, but you can't use it anymore -- BUT, players that kill you can loot your inventory). You increase your "health" by feeding on downed players -- but just like cattle, these resources can be consumed... then you need to find the next one. Your melee is stronger than normal players and, of course, spreads infection much, much more easily. You could lie on the ground and play dead until an unsuspecting player checks you and with one swipe, you infect them!! (maybe not kill them, but then they need a cure, etc. -- THINK what that would do for the idea of fear of zeds and looting random corpses!) You can't use vehicles. You can be shot and killed, or killed by falling (but not by drowning -- zeds don't drown). If you are not critically shot, you lose "blood" (or fluids?) to a minimum -- but instead of dying or passing out, this governs whether you can sprint, run, walk, jump, or crawl. You can't be healed. Once crippled, you have to get along at reduced capability. You can't kill other zeds. However, sounds you make will attract other zeds to your location. (i.e. you can "alert" zeds in the area by making noise). Getting too hungry also scales you down from sprint to run, walk, jump, crawl (like losing blood) except you can regain capability from hunger by eating new people. Sprinting uses more energy than walking, etc. This is a constraint on just running forever looking for fresh players. Once you're really dead, then you get to start over as a player again. Players *might* choose to spawn and then immediately find a zed, get bitten and have more fun playing as a zed... EXCEPT that the infection rules still apply! This means that you only have the chance to turn into a zed... you can still bleed out and die before turning into one. Or the zed can kill you before you change... so respawning and turning into a zed isn't an easy or sure thing... it's just a chance. The chance of being infected and the process of turning zed is just enough to instill paranoia in people that were involved in close attacks. Were you bit? I don't know? Why am I shivering? Hey, he's shivering guys, I don't think we should risk it! shoot him! or: "you may be infected or not... here's a pistol, good luck!" -- man, the paranoia in groups would be *evil*. The other reason I like this idea is that it gives some reward for time investment in the game: even if you get infected, you get to play as a zed. How fun is that?! What do you think?

I've been playing ARMA for a couple years, scripting my own levels, learning more about ARMA's scripting engine, etc. (As a dev, game engines fascinate me -- I'm always interested in the tradeoffs and design points.) Here's my thoughts: The ARMA engine excels at what it was originally designed for: large-scale medium to long range tactical combat operations. That means, combined ops between tanks, helis, ground troops, etc. fighting on open terrain across distances greater than 10 meters and possibly several kilometers. Buildings in ARMA are for cover, not tactical CQB (close quarters combat)... if you've ever tried to set up a sniper's roost in a building and launch an M203 grenade through a window, you'll know just how flaky the collision boxes are in close quarters. Doors and gates, etc. are all there with the most basic of functionality -- they are not really tactical elements, except as obstacles and cover -- for example, you can't easily "breach and clear" like you can in some tactical simulations. Combat interactions rarely deal with opening/closing items, but rather on climbing over or around, etc. using cover, etc. None of this is a problem in ARMA because the game mechanics match the engine requirements. Try sneaking and creeping on a server with human opponents -- it simply doesn't work. You have to use squad tactics. This is war, not Rainbow Six. DAYZ has a completely different game mechanic. You want to use stealth, CQB, and buildings/doors as tactical elements. Combat in DAYZ is often significantly less than 10 meters (unless you're sniping) and that exposes a bunch of limitations that the original ARMA engine was never designed to handle. (I would love to see proper "breach and clear" options for stores and buildings in DAYZ!) ARMA2 has some capability to customize the physics used (for example, see "Project Reality") -- so it may be within DAYZ dev's power to correct/modify some of the ARMA2 engine characteristics. If so, one of the biggest pet peeves I have is brushing up against doors or trees and suddenly getting killed because of "infinite" reaction force vectors. In real-life, nothing is completely immovable, so if a door closes on you, it only presses on you with force proportional to the weight of the door/spring, etc. But in-game, the door is a scripted element, so it closes absolutely with no thought to reactionary forces -- hence when forces against your body are considered, it's effectively like the door weighs a thousand tons... you WILL be crushed if any part of you gets stuck between the closing door and the frame. An alternative solution would be to exclude the player from door physics altogether and simply slide them through the frame while the door is script/closing. ARMA3 is planned to have significant upgrades to physics, including hardware PhysX support and ragdoll physics -- so eventually DAYZ may inherit better close range mechanics from ARMA3... TL;DR: ARMA is an excellent medium-long range tactical simulation; DAYZ is a stealth/CQB tactical simulation. Improvements in custom physics and/or ARMA3 physics may fill some of the gaps in gameplay. DAYZ is such a wildly successful idea that even with glitches people want to play it.