Please fix the spear and pickaxe animations

[Brother Hao 28]

Hi there!

Currently, spears and pickaxes use the what I think is default melee animations for their attacks, which don't make much sense. With a spear, you don't swing the stick around to kill a boar, you stab it with the sharp end. I think that applying the animations that the bayonets have would be a good fix for it. Also fix the sound the spear makes. 

[pilgrim* 3513]

42 minutes ago, Brother Hao said:

Hi there!

Currently, spears and pickaxes use the what I think is default melee animations for their attacks, which don't make much sense. With a spear, you don't swing the stick around to kill a boar, you stab it with the sharp end. I think that applying the animations that the bayonets have would be a good fix for it. Also fix the sound the spear makes. 

stabbing with a spear would work well IF it were fixed as you suggest.. An attacker with a knife or hammer, or fists,  can't get close to you if you are straight-stabbing him at spear's length - also if he tries to get closer he will run himself onto the spear point.  This seems great - someone will explain why it is too complex to implement.

p.s.  if you're interested :

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by pilgrim*
~

[NachoNinjaGnome 28]

On 7/21/2019 at 3:47 PM, pilgrim* said:

stabbing with a spear would work well IF it were fixed as you suggest.. An attacker with a knife or hammer, or fists,  can't get close to you if you are straight-stabbing him at spear's length - also if he tries to get closer he will run himself onto the spear point.  This seems great - someone will explain why it is too complex to implement.

p.s.  if you're interested :

 

 

Seems to me like BI should have created a better melee system from the start, especially considering that zombies are supposed to be the main in-game threat.  While it is true that spears are a highly efficient melee weapon IRL, this video is hardly "scientific proof".  You would need far more test bouts with far more participants to declare something like that.  What the game really needs is an overhaul of the melee system.  IRL, dodging, parrying and disarming are NOT difficult.  It is much easier to bypass the point of a spear than it is to bypass the entire blade of a sword, at least when the spear is used with two hands for maximum reach.  Though, in the one-handed method, with the hand at the balance point, or the two-handed close quarter method, it can be a bit more dangerous at shorter distances.  Perhaps BI should take a page from Chivalry, or any number of other games, and revamp the melee system into something more fluid and versatile.

[ThePugman 280]

I also hope that spear animations change, but you can’t compare DayZ to a game designed around medieval combat.

In 1.03 they added bayonets with a stabbing animation for guns. Hopefully that means spears aren’t far behind.

Also, dodging is already in the game. Pressing the lean buttons with your fists raised, makes you bob left or right.

[pilgrim* 3513]

4 hours ago, NachoNinjaGnome said:

  It is much easier to bypass the point of a spear than it is to bypass the entire blade of a sword, at least when the spear is used with two hands for maximum reach.

funny you should say this when the experts say the opposite - do you do a LOT of martial arts ? read the sagas much ?  Historical research maybe ? but EVERYONE has an opinion I guess..
.. still, it's NOT my problem .. its a disagreement between you and those OTHER experts
obviously you ALL know a lot more about it than I do - so I'll stay clear, thanx 
If you feel up to it, please tell  how far you get in your argument with the "other" experts  .. ( or with BI for that matter )

but NOT with me, dude..

p.s. if you're interested here's some more amateur bullshit for you deride, from the advantage of your experience with melee weapons :

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_spear.htm

and a serious extra 136 Mb of dedicated research info here, in PDF,  if you want to REALLY get down to the nitty gritty:

http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/10354/

and REALLY read the Battle of Maldon - and Beowulf too, why the hell not.. get an intro to what's been going on for 1300 years  - lets not even START on the bloody Macedonians et al.. just stick with the local recent stuff . And it's there to read in translation (free anywhere on the web) you'll enjoy it too.

have fun - I think IMO  @Brother Hao has it RIGHT - I'd chose a good spear against a sword any day..  but this is irrelevant to DayZ where nothing new is going to happen.. that's spelled with an "n" = "nothing"?
Pronounce it zilch if you like. 

xxp

Swa hi Æþelgares bearn ealle bylde,
Godric to guþe. Oft he gar forlet,
wælspere windan on þa wicingas,
swa he on þam folce fyrmest eode,
heow and hynde, oðþæt he on hilde gecranc.

 

[Derleth 1352]

In a thread a month back or so I remember @ImpulZ said the stabbing and several other missing animations are coming back eventually. There's a number of melee weapons from 0.62 still missing, likely because of that. I have wondered why they did add the spear back with the wrong animation - the swingy swingy really looks wonky as fudge, it is just NOT the way you use a spear - but I assume it is because it is simple to craft so it is useful for newspawns. Unless I get lucky and find a hatchet right away I always make one, they drop zeds faster than a can of peaches will. The range the stabbing gave you is sorely missed though, especially since infected became more of a threat up close.

[NachoNinjaGnome 28]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:34 PM, pilgrim* said:

funny you should say this when the experts say the opposite - do you do a LOT of martial arts ? read the sagas much ?  Historical research maybe ? but EVERYONE has an opinion I guess..
.. still, it's NOT my problem .. its a disagreement between you and those OTHER experts
obviously you ALL know a lot more about it than I do - so I'll stay clear, thanx 
If you feel up to it, please tell  how far you get in your argument with the "other" experts  .. ( or with BI for that matter )

but NOT with me, dude..

p.s. if you're interested here's some more amateur bullshit for you deride, from the advantage of your experience with melee weapons :

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_spear.htm

and a serious extra 136 Mb of dedicated research info here, in PDF,  if you want to REALLY get down to the nitty gritty:

http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/10354/

and REALLY read the Battle of Maldon - and Beowulf too, why the hell not.. get an intro to what's been going on for 1300 years  - lets not even START on the bloody Macedonians et al.. just stick with the local recent stuff . And it's there to read in translation (free anywhere on the web) you'll enjoy it too.

have fun - I think IMO  @Brother Hao has it RIGHT - I'd chose a good spear against a sword any day..  but this is irrelevant to DayZ where nothing new is going to happen.. that's spelled with an "n" = "nothing"?
Pronounce it zilch if you like. 

xxp

Swa hi Æþelgares bearn ealle bylde,
Godric to guþe. Oft he gar forlet,
wælspere windan on þa wicingas,
swa he on þam folce fyrmest eode,
heow and hynde, oðþæt he on hilde gecranc.

 

That's just simple physics.  Point out one expert who would deny my logic.  And yes, I have been a practitioner of martial arts for over 30 years and have taught some of those arts to select people in that time.  Sagas?  I read a few.  My own research into the history of martial arts and military tactics is fairly extensive as well.  And no, your problem is arrogance and ignorance.  Perhaps it might behoove you make an effort to NOT be a dick, if you can figure out what it means to do so.

And no, there's no disagreement with me and other experts over the aforementioned.  You just took my words out of context.  I would explain it to you, but based upon your reply, you do not possess the necessary mental capacity to understand such an explanation.

[pilgrim* 3513]

2 hours ago, NachoNinjaGnome said:

your problem is arrogance and ignorance.  Perhaps it might behoove you make an effort to NOT be a dick ..//.. you do not possess the necessary mental capacity to understand such an explanation.

hi friend - your 30 years of martial arts have taught you peace of mind and tranquility. This is good.

And erudition is always a noble goal

Enjoy the benefits of your understanding and training - to quote the Go Rin no Sho "When your will is unshakeable, when you superior knowledge, your skill and self-control stand like the sun, you don't need to get your knickers in a twist" 

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 8/1/2019 at 7:11 PM, ThePugman said:

In 1.03 they added bayonets with a stabbing animation for guns. Hopefully that means spears aren’t far behind.

I don't remember this

You could always use a bayonet alone, in your hand, as a knife

But as far as I remember there has never been any melee animation for any firearm? Whatever firearm you were holding, you have always had to put it AWAY and take out something else (even bare fists or a can of beans ) to physically strike someone in a melee - you could NOT melee-strike anyone with any gun - no pistol-whipping with a hand arm, no clubbing with a rifle, and NO stabbing with a rifle that had a bayonet mounted on it.   First melee rule has always been (from the start, up to the present) that you put the firearm OUT of your hand or you CANT melee.

If I'm wrong - someone will correct me.. (oh yess you WILL.. thanx)  but I seem to remember that has always been true in DayZ vanilla, back since the Mod.

@Brother Hao started the thread to  mention 2 things = pickaxe melee animation, spear melee animation

<< spears and pickaxes use the what I think is default melee animations for their attacks, which don't make much sense">>

YES - This is no big deal thread about changing the melee system, or "make it like Chivalry", or "let's have  Kung-Fu", or 'dropkicks and head-butts,'  or "arm wrestling" etc. There have been plenty of "those" threads for plenty of years.

For me, it's just the spear animation that is really interesting   ATM - a forward thrust animation - (a prod forward) - like the knife attack but 2-handed.. would work fine and look fine.. this is nothing to do with changing the  "the melee system"

,just add one animation that would fit just one or two of weapons.. 

I'm not even suggesting that the player is given a choice of animations.. it would be great to be able to swipe with "a stout stick" or "a spade" and ALSO to strike straight  forward with them..at choice.. but IMO even that (or any) choice of a limited variety of moves is not ever going to happen. The "defensive block option" move was the greatest advance in the melee system (in fact the only advance) in .. er .. years. I ain't looking for, or expecting, any great leap in DayZ Melee.

*

Just a straight forward prod animation with a spear or stout stick, instead of a wild swipe..  I'm with @Brother Hao  on that. For the pick-axe I guess he's right too, but I'm not much of a pick-axe fighter - ask the experts about that melee animation).

 

** BUT Hell => Bayonets and Firearms

I don't understand why firearms of any kind (including everything from pistols to rifles with fixed bayonets) CANT be used as simply hand-held solid weighty objects to hit people with.. not much difference between an empty revolver and a spanner, or between an empty rifle and a crowbar, or a shotgun and a length of pipe -  really?   Is there? If that was what I had in my hand, I'd definitely HIT and BLOCK with it for sure. Specially if it had a BAYONET on the end of it. 

OK - maybe my memory is false?   Could we EVER use any firearm (bayonet or not) as a melee weapon ?? .. or has it always as I seem to remember been restricted to cans of cola, spanners; screwdrivers, axes, poles, knives, garden forks, etc AND you MUST put the firearm away first to empty your hands or you can't get into a street scrap.

The ANSWER to this strange state of affairs will be "techical difficulty" (bet on it)  .. something like << using the same key to '"shoot" and to "strike' is far too difficult to workaround >>.
You couldn't ever have a "gameplay" SAFETY on a firearm in DayZ, - a toggle key - so when the Safety is Off you 'Shoot', when the Safety is On you 'Strike'  . This is technically impossible ?? 

naturally

But, meanwhile - a better spear thrust animation would be nice, and look natural and realistic.      @Brother Hao got that right.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by pilgrim*
~

[ThePugman 280]

@pilgrim* Yeah, as I say, 1.03 added firearm melee and functional use of bayonets.

If you are using conventional keybindings, you raise your weapon and press F to perform firearm melee. It’s not as viable as conventional melee weapons, but it certainly helps you out in a pinch, by pushing zeds back. Very useful to prevent being cornered.

Edited August 5, 2019 by ThePugman

[ThePugman 280]

@pilgrim*

[pilgrim* 3513]

2 hours ago, ThePugman said:

@pilgrim* Yeah, as I say, 1.03 added firearm melee and functional use of bayonets.

If you are using conventional keybindings, you raise your weapon and press F to perform firearm melee. It’s not as viable as conventional melee weapons, but it certainly helps you out in a pinch, by pushing zeds back. Very useful to prevent being cornered.

NICE .. kind of nice - we have had 1.03 for a whole 10 weeks now (?) and I didn't notice yet .. OK I just went and found the video in the release note.  Guess I  got into the habit of fighting zombs with my bare fists and my firearm out of the way, after all these years ..  thanx for the heads-up  @ThePugman  - For some crazy inexplicable reason I didn't read the release note very much (can't imagine why)..  
An animation for a 'pole weapon' to thrust back and damage an opponent is what we SHOULD have for the spear or stout staff.  Would make a nice challenge against the "axe supremacists"

Edited August 5, 2019 by pilgrim*

[ThePugman 280]

@pilgrim* Try it with a bayonet on the gun and it gets nice and stabby. The kind of stabby I’d love to see on the spear!

[NachoNinjaGnome 28]

12 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

hi friend - your 30 years of martial arts have taught you peace of mind and tranquility. This is good.

And erudition is always a noble goal

Enjoy the benefits of your understanding and training - to quote the Go Rin no Sho "When your will is unshakeable, when you superior knowledge, your skill and self-control stand like the sun, you don't need to get your knickers in a twist" 

Well, I apologize for not being as enlightened as you.  Not all of us can exist solely on trolling, sarcasm, douchebaggery and typos.  I submit to your imagined superiority and recoil before your last word.  Please proceed.

[pilgrim* 3513]

1 hour ago, NachoNinjaGnome said:

Well, I apologize for not being as enlightened as you.

apology accepted

[maxon-69 35]

how could i miss that
the spear from patch 0.62 was added to the game ???