Hi ImpulZ, can you please forward these 2 questions to the devs?

[0.64 Freerider 261]

@ImpulZ Hi, unfortunately this forum is the only way I know how to direct any sort of question remotely into the direction of the devs. I don't care at all, if the answer is even just ONE WORD per question, though of course I hope for a little bit more, but just any answer would be great as these 2 questions are very important to me personally

 I'm not gonna bother you with the details, since we already spoke in direct messaging about it, so the questions are about the current situation. I will explain some details below the questions for the people who don't know what I mean, since this is still a thread.

 

1. Do the developers still consider it a possibility, implementing the quickbar to be made only bindable to items that are in your holster or pockets(shirt/jacket, pants or vest) or boots, as those are the areas you could "quickly" reach in reality?

2. Do the developers still consider it a possiblity, implementing separated slots based on an items specification e.g. separating the 'grid' of the Assault backpack in one big grid for the main storage and two smaller grids to the left and right, resembling the actual pockets this specific backpack has? Going back to the first question those would also logically make sense to be somewhat reachable for quickbar perhaps.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Now for the explanation part, obviously not for you Tim:

Regarding the 1st question - Why do I suggest this?

I'll start off by saying, that in my opinion it would add to immersion. You would be expected think more thoroughly about how you organize your items and your bindings in the quickbar, due to the fact that you can't just bind everything from within your inventory. It also makes it more attactive to wear items that have these capabilities. These items already make it so you get more quickbar-slots in total, so there is already some thought going into this direction.

 

But now for the main purpose this tweak would bring, which is 'READABLITY'. Ex-Lead-Designer Peter Nespesny always talked about this as one of the most important factors in this game. He wanted you to be able to read other peoples body language and gear, so you could somewhat estimate if and if yes, how big of a threat they could potentially be to you. And there comes in the issue, because you can store smg's and even big assault rifles like the AKs and M4 in your backpack and bind them to your quickbar.

 

Yes, yes the smg's could even be hidden inside the vests (I'll get to that in the 'details' regarding the 2nd question) and I have no problem with them fitting inside backpacks, but the point is, you wouldn't be able to just quickly draw them from there in real life, which this change would deny.

 

As for the assault rifles I don't think they should fit into any backpack that is in the game right now, as long as those guns are fully assembled. Just look at the models and you are going to quickly find, that that wouldn't make for a good fit. The guns would have to stick out the top of the backpacks, but yeah, that opens up a whole nother rabbit hole, that I want to leave unexplored for the moment 😉

 

So there you have it, that's all I can think of at the moment for the 1st question about quickbar-accessibility

 

 

Regarding the 2nd question - Why do I suggest this?

This might be the one of the two that would be harder for the developers to implement, as I assume, but hey, I'm here to explain myself!

 

The "separated slots based on an items specification" basically mean, that the grid you have in your inventory, roughly represents the spaces and the subsections for e.g. pockets on an item. I will provide some images below from the game Escape from Tarkov™, that uses a very similar inventory system and has this slot separation:

 

Now, as you can see this isn't very accurate but of course the actual represantion can only go so far, because balancing needs to be in play as well. I'm not saying that I think it's impossible to balance, even when going fully accurate on the represantation slot-wise, but it might be alot harder. The effect I ultimately want to achieve with this type of separation is, that you can't put an smg in your PANTS, SHIRT, OR VEST. For certain clothing parts it would limit the type of item you could fit in there and that is exactly what I want to see with this change.

 

Thank you for reading

TL;DR Feature requests to add immersion and mitigate houdini-gun-draws 

Edited June 26, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[Derleth 1352]

Good questions, good suggestions. I tend to organise my inventory this way anyway because I'm a nerd, but making it a necessity (and removing the automatic weapons in clothing issue) would be a good way for DayZ to go.

The other day I saw a streamer with buddy get killed by a guy who looked harmless but pulled a shotgun out of his backpack when they came close to him. Well played by him of course, since the game allows it (they were not prepared for it...), but a shotgun should need to be sawed off before it can be jammed into a backpack...

Edit: One other method could be to have a slower animation for taking out items from backpacks and other slots not deemed as fit for quick drawing. Pulling out that scorpion from my jacket/backpack via hotbar would be possible, but it would take a good few seconds and display an awkward animation...

Edited June 26, 2019 by Derleth

[ThePugman 280]

@0.64 Freerider I completely agree with this. I mean, the 2 guns on your shoulder update means we MUST get rid of primaries from containers. It’s far too OP, otherwise. Also, only pistols or sawn-offs should fit in clothing.

I've been playing some console this week, and it’s even worse! Because they have a number-based inventory, rather than PC Tetris-style, I was able to fit a Mosin in my pants!

Is that a gun in your pants or are you just excited to see me? Er... IT’S A FUCKING MOSIN!

I really hope this is something that is already planned, and the actual reason for the shoulder update. If not, you’re basically a walking weapon cache.

When 1.04 hits consoles you’ll be able to carry 3 primaries in a backpack, 2 on your shoulder, 1 in a vest, 1 in a jacket, 1 in pants, and 1 in your hands. That’s NINE primaries. 

3 should be the absolute max.

 

 

[rickyriot 1009]

You know what would be nice? When returning an item to your inventory IT GOES TO THE SAME BLOODY PLACE IT WAS TAKEN FROM.

Oh, I'm sorry was I shouting, perhaps that's BECAUSE IT'S ANNOYING AS HELL the way it seems to just take a random guess at to where you store stuff. Completely going against all logic and immersion it should be said.

 

Sorry to piggy back this onto this thread, but it does seem related.

 

[0.64 Freerider 261]

7 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Good questions, good suggestions. I tend to organise my inventory this way anyway because I'm a nerd, but making it a necessity (and removing the automatic weapons in clothing issue) would be a good way for DayZ to go.

The other day I saw a streamer with buddy get killed by a guy who looked harmless but pulled a shotgun out of his backpack when they came close to him. Well played by him of course, since the game allows it (they were not prepared for it...), but a shotgun should need to be sawed off before it can be jammed into a backpack...

Edit: One other method could be to have a slower animation for taking out items from backpacks and other slots not deemed as fit for quick drawing. Pulling out that scorpion from my jacket/backpack via hotbar would be possible, but it would take a good few seconds and display an awkward animation...

Thanks, yeah, I'm absolutely with you with the longer animations for items drawn from bulky storage. I'm going to include it in the main post with reference to you, if you don't mind!

[ThePugman 280]

(Edited) Whilst we’re on the topic of inventory balance. I personally believe we should be able to jog whilst in the inventory, but NOT access the backpack. Perhaps putting the backpack into your hands would be a way to do so. The backpack should be different. As Derleth says, slower hotbar animations, SOMETHING. To me, a backpack is something you should only put items you don’t need in a hurry. A big part of the survival experience is PLANNING for the journey. Where’s the planning in shoving your shit anywhere?

Edited June 26, 2019 by ThePugman
Not relevant to original post

[amadieus 313]

Didn't they increase the animation time when grabbing a weapon on the 1.04 experimental? At least I noticed it when toying around... Maybe it was unintended and got fixed last hotfix patch

[aux7 233]

for me inventory management isnt high on my critical list. . .. .  xbox sounds like it needs to be modified though. I hate playing tetris in my backpack ..  .

I like to not carry a gun in my arms so I appear friendly .. . .. (so far I still havent shot a player dead). I carry a gun openly when I want to signal "caution" to someone

I tend to carry several in my backpack, because I dont always have the rounds. Currently my character has a skorpion (one mag loaded and with two mags) , sks, cr527 and a tundra. I have ten rounds to share between the sks and the 527, and I just picked up the tundra . .. .  . no rounds yet. This is why (in my opinion) you need to be able to carry multiple weapons. Finding the rounds, and or magazine (not in this case) sometimes takes time . . .

What I think is more important is a more realistic life for some tools and clothes . . . ..

[rickyriot 1009]

For me inventory management is absolutely critical to the game. That might sound like me "over egging the pudding" but the bottom line is if I cannot control the weapons going in and out of my hand with a level of certainty then the game is broken.

At present I need to have at least one item of clothing that is completely empty purely to deal with the utterly flawed inventory logic.

[Derleth 1352]

1 hour ago, rickyriot said:

For me inventory management is absolutely critical to the game. That might sound like me "over egging the pudding" but the bottom line is if I cannot control the weapons going in and out of my hand with a level of certainty then the game is broken.

At present I need to have at least one item of clothing that is completely empty purely to deal with the utterly flawed inventory logic.

Yeah, I would dearly like a system to "lock" inventory slots to a certain item so nothing goes in there unless I drag it there myself manually. Too many times have I died because I couldn't pull my damn rifle out since a chemlight, box of matches or whatever was occupying a slot where the empty pistol I had in my hands was supposed to go - with zillions of other empty slots available in other places... Drives me crazy every time.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Derleth

[aux7 233]

11 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Yeah, I would dearly like a system to "lock" inventory slots to a certain item so nothing goes in there unless I drag it there myself manually. Too many times have I died because I couldn't pull my damn rifle out since a chemlight, box of matches or whatever was occupying a slot where the empty pistol I had in my hands was supposed to go - with zillions of other empty slots available in other places... Drives me crazy every time.

reason to acquire the belt with pistol, water and knife holster, and I try to acquire other pistol holsters for "guaranteed in the rucksac" pistol storage and the assault boots for the knife slot

[rickyriot 1009]

5 minutes ago, aux7 said:

reason to acquire the belt with pistol, water and knife holster, and I try to acquire other pistol holsters for "guaranteed in the rucksac" pistol storage and the assault boots for the knife slot

Ok, well this doesn't work for me. I had a belt and a holster, I moved my FX pistol to the holster, drew it into my hands, removed it (by repeating the same hotkey I used to select it) and it ended up in my backpack again.

[aux7 233]

2 minutes ago, rickyriot said:

Ok, well this doesn't work for me. I had a belt and a holster, I moved my FX pistol to the holster, drew it into my hands, removed it (by repeating the same hotkey I used to select it) and it ended up in my backpack again.

interesting .. . .you could try raising that as a bug?

for interest, the holster is only meant to be 2 x 3 and the FX is a 2 x 4. Another reason to acquire the holster (with the FX 45). . .. to reduce storage space used . .. .

[Derleth 1352]

9 minutes ago, rickyriot said:

Ok, well this doesn't work for me. I had a belt and a holster, I moved my FX pistol to the holster, drew it into my hands, removed it (by repeating the same hotkey I used to select it) and it ended up in my backpack again.

It does that sometimes when you swap the item for another, it usually goes to the right place if you push the hotkey to holster the thing you have in your hands. Seems the system randomly "forgets" these things though. Anyway it will at least always go into the holster if there is no other inventory space, instead of just staying in your hands causing messy situations...

Edited June 26, 2019 by Derleth

[rickyriot 1009]

34 minutes ago, aux7 said:

interesting .. . .you could try raising that as a bug?

for interest, the holster is only meant to be 2 x 3 and the FX is a 2 x 4. Another reason to acquire the holster (with the FX 45). . .. to reduce storage space used . .. .

Maybe it wasn't the FX, the "footprint" of the gun was the same as the holster.

I won't raise it as a bug as I think the underlying logic for inventory management is flawed from top to bottom and needs an entire rework rather than it just being a minor bug.

What I would say is that the current UI/Inventory is better than it's been for some time (if not ever) and I'm not complaining about that - the bullet type overlays will help a lot but otherwise the UI is fine. Be nice to select multiple items for when you are swapping a backpack, but then in real life you'd probably swap things one at a time too.

32 minutes ago, Derleth said:

It does that sometimes when you swap the item for another, it usually goes to the right place if you push the hotkey to holster the thing you have in your hands. Seems the system randomly "forgets" these things though. Anyway it will at least always go into the holster if there is no other inventory space, instead of just staying in your hands causing messy situations...

I appreciate the reply, but honestly? That's a mess.

It should go to the exact position it was taken from; no ifs, no buts. If there is not enough inventory space then I accept you are at the mercy of game logic. However, on the flip side, when a weapon has been drawn the slots that it took up should be "reserved" until all other space is filled up meaning if you pick up a chemstick it doesn't stick it right in the middle of where you want the gun to go.

 

Interestingly someone mentioned hating the PS4 inventory management as not being classic "inventory tetris" instead it's "value based". For those who haven't seen it, the capacity size is shown (say 40) and if your item is less than the available space, it's added. Now I get that this is probably needed for consoles considering how annoying dealing with any UI is with a controller, and it does end up with daft situations as mentioned above of having a Mosin in your pocket simply because the size fits irrespective of the dimensions. However, when you think about it, it stops that annoying situation where there are 7 slots available which are separated into a single slot and a 3x2 set of slots. When picking up a single slot item you have no guarantee it will sit in the one slot location - in fact in most of my games it sits it into the 3x2 area. Having a value based inventory does resolve that as it's as simple as 7 slots free? Great, minus one for that item. What? You want a gun in here too? Well you have 6 slots free, and oh.. the gun is 6.

Edited June 26, 2019 by rickyriot

[ThePugman 280]

For me, I’ve never noticed items going in random places when I put them back with the hotbar. Plus I think dragging is so quick and effective on PC, that it’s not too bothersome when it does happen. 

The only time it irks me is when it stops me putting something away, but at that point, I’m probably carrying too much shit, anyway LUL 

[0.64 Freerider 261]

4 hours ago, ThePugman said:

@0.64 Freerider I completely agree with this. I mean, the 2 guns on your shoulder update means we MUST get rid of primaries from containers. It’s far too OP, otherwise. Also, only pistols or sawn-offs should fit in clothing.

I've been playing some console this week, and it’s even worse! Because they have a number-based inventory, rather than PC Tetris-style, I was able to fit a Mosin in my pants!

Is that a gun in your pants or are you just excited to see me? Er... IT’S A FUCKING MOSIN!

I really hope this is something that is already planned, and the actual reason for the shoulder update. If not, you’re basically a walking weapon cache.

When 1.04 hits consoles you’ll be able to carry 3 primaries in a backpack, 2 on your shoulder, 1 in a vest, 1 in a jacket, 1 in pants, and 1 in your hands. That’s NINE primaries. 

3 should be the absolute max.

 

 

Haha, well said.

[rickyriot 1009]

3 hours ago, ThePugman said:

For me, I’ve never noticed items going in random places when I put them back with the hotbar. Plus I think dragging is so quick and effective on PC, that it’s not too bothersome when it does happen.

We all have slightly subtle differences in the way we manage our inventory, so I'm guessing the outcome of actions won't all be the same. I have found that returning items from your hands when using a hotkey is not guaranteed to return it to the same place even if your inventory hasn't changed in the slightest. It's that lack of consistency that is the real problem. That's why I said "random", it's not really random, I was using a touch of poetic licence there.

You are right about using a mouse for the UI being pretty decent (and has been improving over the years) - and it would be lovely to have a multiple selection option - but as you know yourself when in the heat of battle and the hotkey stops working for you, dropping to your inventory and starting to drag stuff all over the place is not going to help your fight.

I'm not so harsh on the devs for this as it's clear the UI/inventory is forever evolving. It's rare I get completely "locked hands" but it's still annoying when it happens.

Edited June 26, 2019 by rickyriot

[0.64 Freerider 261]

12 hours ago, rickyriot said:

You know what would be nice? When returning an item to your inventory IT GOES TO THE SAME BLOODY PLACE IT WAS TAKEN FROM.

Oh, I'm sorry was I shouting, perhaps that's BECAUSE IT'S ANNOYING AS HELL the way it seems to just take a random guess at to where you store stuff. Completely going against all logic and immersion it should be said.

 

Sorry to piggy back this onto this thread, but it does seem related.

 

Well it's related, even if just very remotely 😉 That being said, I completely agree with you and want consistency here as well!

Edited June 26, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[0.64 Freerider 261]

21 hours ago, ThePugman said:

(Edited) Whilst we’re on the topic of inventory balance. I personally believe we should be able to jog whilst in the inventory, but NOT access the backpack. Perhaps putting the backpack into your hands would be a way to do so. The backpack should be different. As Derleth says, slower hotbar animations, SOMETHING. To me, a backpack is something you should only put items you don’t need in a hurry. A big part of the survival experience is PLANNING for the journey. Where’s the planning in shoving your shit anywhere?

Yup, love it. I don't know if you were there, but there was a so called "Focussed Feedback Round" a while back on 4 different topics. One of those was "Character Movement, Gestures and Actions" I had a couple of participations there and people were supposed to give beans, when they agreed with you and for that one I had 11, which was one of the highest given in that discussion. Unfortunately they never gave us proper feedback to our feedback <:D Anyhow here's the quote and below the link to the original post and also to another one in the same discussion regarding zig-zagging

Quote

I believe there needs to be a visual representation of people going through their inventory. Animation-Wise.

This is part of the "see and analyse" Mr. Nespesny has mentioned. I realize that this is some work for the animation team, but it's so important for readiblity.

I've seen some people wanting the option to go through inventory while jogging back. I understand that and why wouldn't you be able to take your backpack over to one shoulder or under your arm and reach inside while jogging? This animation could be looped for as long as the inventory is open, no matter wether you stand or jog. Of course you wouldn't be able to sprint while it's open and you would have to wait a little for your character to readjust the backpack on his back.

It's one animation and quite alot of transitions I assume, but it would mean SO much!

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[0.64 Freerider 261]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:57 AM, amadieus said:

Didn't they increase the animation time when grabbing a weapon on the 1.04 experimental? At least I noticed it when toying around... Maybe it was unintended and got fixed last hotfix patch

I didn't notice any change for normal draw speeds. The only thing that changed in my observation is, that with the introduction of individual multipurpose shoulder-slots Melee-weapons draw faster from the right shoulder and guns draw faster from the left shoulder. They created new animations for the "cross-drawing" and so I believe that the speed being slower for cross-drawing is intended.

Edited June 27, 2019 by 0.64 Freerider

[ThePugman 280]

@0.64 Freerider I just read the feedback. Love the idea of animations for going in your bag. Let’s hope it’s something that’s in the works. I guess all the main design decisions are complete now that Peter has gone, so it’s hopefully time for more content!

[0.64 Freerider 261]

2 hours ago, ThePugman said:

@0.64 Freerider I just read the feedback. Love the idea of animations for going in your bag. Let’s hope it’s something that’s in the works. I guess all the main design decisions are complete now that Peter has gone, so it’s hopefully time for more content!

Fingers crossed! Damn, would I love to see animations for going through stuff, possibly also for looting bodies. It has been suggested for a long time, but there is just one catch, if there would be animations for looting bodies, the outry would be LARGE, that you can get shot so easily while looting. Even though in reality it would be exactly like that, people are used to the side-stepping, to protect their a**es. That's why I think it would be the smartest to release such feature, if planned, along with another feature which is officially planned which is 'dragging bodies'

 

Quote

Features and improvements planned for BETA/1.0, or originally in 0.62, but moved post 1.0

• Helicopters 🔲
  • we've arrived at the decision that base building implementation will provide enough of an end goal for players, so helicopters can be added later on
• Climbing over obstacles 🔲
  • this feature required additional programming and animation support that we've decided to invest more effectively into other parts of the game 
• Throwing items ✅
  • throwing requires a lot of additional specialist work on physics and network synchronization, and we'd rather invest that into vehicles and other features
  • this includes throwable weapons like grenades or smoke grenades
• Bows 🔲
  • the implementation of bows means an introduction of a completely new weapon type on 0.63 and was always a risky goal, in the end unfortunately not achievable in 2018; we've invested the programming time into gun play, melee combat, vehicles and other core features that were more important
• Character and infected ragdoll 🔲
• unfortunately, there are many network synchronization cases that we need to resolve and implementing ragdolls in combination with death animations will require more time and resources
• Two-way doors 🔲
  • while a huge quality of life improvement, changing the doors to two way opening will require additional rework of some of the assets, and is not achievable in 2018
• Fishing and fish traps, decaying bodies, carrying characters, contaminated areas, item coloring etc.🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲
  • these are considered flavor features and for now, work on core gameplay features was prioritized instead

Excerpt from ⬇️

 

 

[ThePugman 280]

@0.64 Freerider Definitely! It all comes back to the idea of being able to read players, to see if they are a threat. If someone is looting a body, and it takes them a couple of seconds to come out of the looting animation, that makes them much less of a threat. Maybe more people would consider holding them up? I know I certainly would. 

I had no idea ‘dragging’ bodies is an officially planned feature. That’s so fucking cool, and yeah, it would make so much sense to release together with a looting animation.

Gonna have to read me that feature list, I think.

Edited June 27, 2019 by ThePugman

[0.64 Freerider 261]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:26 AM, aux7 said:

I tend to carry several in my backpack, because I dont always have the rounds. Currently my character has a skorpion (one mag loaded and with two mags) , sks, cr527 and a tundra. I have ten rounds to share between the sks and the 527, and I just picked up the tundra . .. .  . no rounds yet. This is why (in my opinion) you need to be able to carry multiple weapons. Finding the rounds, and or magazine (not in this case) sometimes takes time . . .

Yes, I get the issue with playing 'memory' here. That is why in my opinion, the loot table could use an adjustment in order for compatible items to have a high or even definite chance of spawning in the vicinity. Logically it makes only in very, very(!) few scenarios sense to find a gun someplace, without ammunition or if required mags nearby. It just doesn't make sense, someone who has owned the gun, would have stored ammo/mags somewhere nearby.

However in your example I think it would be fair if you were forced to choose between the cr527 carbine and the sks. With my suggestion you would have to have the two big guns 527/sks and tundra on your back and the scorpion i would be totally fine with to fit in a pocket, that thing is small!