Quick test on 1.02

[PondjectsKilla 20]

Only had 15 mins or so to see what was what before going to work but was lucky enough to leave off close to the SW mili base... Fitst off, noticed the breath is virtually invisible at night, and its pitch black ( both pluses for me) literally could not see a thing without a flashlight... Rolled up in the base and the zombies were freaking me out, loud but could not see them, i was forced to take out my flashlight which made it more nerve racking. Finally made it out of the base without taking a single thing (all buttstocks) and decided to see if the scopes were fixed as far as looking through. I pull out my NV scope and to my great suprise it worked! And just happened to scope in on a heli crash on the hill! Ran up there and came out with a tactical backpack, m4 and an lar! Unfortunately have to go to work so can test any more but will later on. Get out there and get the loot while it lasts!

[Tino81 168]

28 minutes ago, PondjectsKilla said:

Only had 15 mins or so to see what was what before going to work but was lucky enough to leave off close to the SW mili base... Fitst off, noticed the breath is virtually invisible at night, and its pitch black ( both pluses for me) literally could not see a thing without a flashlight... Rolled up in the base and the zombies were freaking me out, loud but could not see them, i was forced to take out my flashlight which made it more nerve racking. Finally made it out of the base without taking a single thing (all buttstocks) and decided to see if the scopes were fixed as far as looking through. I pull out my NV scope and to my great suprise it worked! And just happened to scope in on a heli crash on the hill! Ran up there and came out with a tactical backpack, m4 and an lar! Unfortunately have to go to work so can test any more but will later on. Get out there and get the loot while it lasts!

Sounds like I need a torch and/or a head lamp now. Passed loads of them on my travels and didn't pick one up so I bet I can't find one now 😂

[Man Parts 241 686]

1 hour ago, PondjectsKilla said:

Get out there and get the loot while it lasts!

Lol, gotta work all day. Not gonna even bother with this game until we get a wipe and a proper fix for duping. Some of my clan members have already found a workaround for the increased timer. By the time I get on tonight all the dupers will have hoarded all the new shit. Same goes for most.

[Flyingpapaya 86]

Report bug to devs, stop playing with game ruining losers. 

[Skofield_Kid 41]

29 minutes ago, Flyingpapaya said:

Report bug to devs, stop playing with game ruining losers. 

Sounds more like the developer should pay them as testers for finding flaws in their fix in less than 24 hrs of the patch. 

[PondjectsKilla 20]

The only way they will be able to eliminate duping is to have character locked servers... Would eliminate ghosting, server hopping and duping in one motion, if we cant get private servers we should at least have 100 or so out of the 170 be locked... Let the70 stay public so people who just want pvp on the coast have something to do

[PondjectsKilla 20]

3 hours ago, Tino81 said:

Sounds like I need a torch and/or a head lamp now. Passed loads of them on my travels and didn't pick one up so I bet I can't find one now 😂

All you need is a knife and rags.... Make a torch and use the bark/stick ignitor ( cant think of the name sorry)

[Man Parts 241 686]

2 hours ago, Skofield_Kid said:

Sounds more like the developer should pay them as testers for finding flaws in their fix in less than 24 hrs of the patch. 

They had it figured out within an hour. 

[Man Parts 241 686]

2 hours ago, Flyingpapaya said:

Report bug to devs, stop playing with game ruining losers. 

Or, stop playing a game being developed by losers?

Lol

[bandito6000 175]

13 minutes ago, Man Parts 241 said:

Or, stop playing a game being developed by losers?

Lol

Dude, I get being judgmental about a game that you want to do well, but your overly cinical attitude is just needlessly toxic to the community of people who actually play. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by bandito6000

[pilgrim* 3513]

15 minutes ago, PondjectsKilla said:

The only way they will be able to eliminate duping is to have character locked servers

This is not the case.

There are other technical solutions that can be implemented completely inside the DayZ server software. A 100% in-game solution negates any problem caused by the XBL service, and any difficulties that BI & DayZ could have related to that.
I have proposed one that I believe is effective - I suggest the outline a couple of times in fact - but had no feedback on it.
Can't say if it has been noticed, or if it was considered impracticable or simply flawed, or if other directions are already being intensely pursued & so it wasn't considered useful.

I'm certain the Devs have a priority team on the duping problem.  My understanding is that character locked servers are NOT on the BI Xbox agenda as a solution to Duping.

You can put the question directly by using a Staff link in your comment.

[bandito6000 175]

16 minutes ago, Man Parts 241 said:

Or, stop playing a game being developed by losers?

Lol

Flyingpapaya has a point. Be the change that you want to see.

Edited April 25, 2019 by bandito6000

[Nayte 503]

42 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

This is not the case.

There are other technical solutions that can be implemented completely inside the DayZ server software. A 100% in-game solution negates any problem caused by the XBL service, and any difficulties that BI & DayZ could have related to that.
I have proposed one that I believe is effective - I suggest the outline a couple of times in fact - but had no feedback on it.
Can't say if it has been noticed, or if it was considered impracticable or simply flawed, or if other directions are already being intensely pursued & so it wasn't considered useful.

I'm certain the Devs have a priority team on the duping problem.  My understanding is that character locked servers are NOT on the BI Xbox agenda as a solution to Duping.

You can put the question directly by using a Staff link in your comment.

I remember reading that suggestion a couple of times. I believe you are referring to your point of using a serial number for each mil rifle/weapon.

I thought Impulz responded, essentially saying it would be a coding nightmare. I don’t envy whoever would have to do it, though if it was viable hopefully we’ll see something along those lines.

Nobody else, aside from pushing for character locked servers, seems to have any real solutions to the problem.

[Nayte 503]

To Op:

I’m downloading the update now, excited to try out the new goodies. The darker nights, along with the new sound effects should make for some fun!

 

[Stagman70 210]

1 hour ago, Nayte said:

The darker nights

Personally, I liked the way nights were in 1.01.  I haven't played 1.02 yet, but from what I've read, it seems it's back to the way it was in game preview?  The only time I have ever experienced absolute pitch black night in real life was 100% overcast.  Having pitch blackness in the game is unrealistic.

[Man Parts 241 686]

3 hours ago, bandito6000 said:

Dude, I get being judgmental about a game that you want to do well, but your overly cinical attitude is just needlessly toxic to the community of people who actually play. 

BI made me this way. I'm not the only one. I just choose to be a dick about it and give BI shit whenever I can.

I could care less about being toxic. KoS scrubs make this community way more toxic than I ever can.

You think I'm bad? Go check Twitter lol

 

[Man Parts 241 686]

2 hours ago, bandito6000 said:

Flyingpapaya has a point. Be the change that you want to see.

I can't be the change I want to see, I'm not developing this game. Derp.

[Stagman70 210]

10 hours ago, PondjectsKilla said:

literally could not see a thing without a flashlight

You must have not had a moon or something.  Is it dark?  You bet.  But, I was able to make it to Signal Mountain in the dark.  I was able to follow the high-voltage lines and power poles that led up to it, and I was able to see the silhouette of the tower.  When night is on the horizon, you need to position yourself to be able to navigate using land features.  That, and you CAN see your compass without light.

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:26 PM, Nayte said:

I remember reading that suggestion a couple of times. I believe you are referring to your point of using a serial number for each mil rifle/weapon.

I thought Impulz responded, essentially saying it would be a coding nightmare. I don’t envy whoever would have to do it, though if it was viable hopefully we’ll see something along those lines.

Nobody else, aside from pushing for character locked servers, seems to have any real solutions to the problem.

DUPING solution MINIMALIST   

OK  Nayte  - roughly this is it.. I suggest transportable containers instead of weapons, to cut down the lists overhead - but this system seems to me to work and requires the manipulation of ONE extra byte only for the object instances concerned. This will not burn out the server IMO or slow down the software or the game  =  In My View.  
Difficulty of programming.. ??  Maybe I can leave that open ?  There may be something I have NOT noticed that would make this difficult or impossible to implement ?

it goes like this:

    *  *  *
     

 each object-X instance that spawns on the map has a definition. This is already the case - Central Loot Economy

 
 definition =    {object} {condition} {coordinates}{..etc}

that is : each instance of an object had "qualities" attached to it.. =  "where it is "- is it "pristine/damaged, etc"' - "how many bullets in the mag" - other "qualities" depending on the object that is instanced. ALL DayZ object instances that a player can interact with have a series of such qualities attached to them. This system of "qualities" is pretty robust.. maybe your .45 has vanished when you log in  or your whole pack has disappeared (that's a different problem) , but you never find that your "worn" kitchen knife is suddenly "pristine", & etc.. "qualities" stick pretty well with the instance they define, they don't get lost. If the instance is there, the "qualities" are there.

  Now suppose we want to stop Duping.

  Leave aside the CLE and public/private hives (we don't need to worry about those)

  We can assign serial numbers to all transportable containers - backpacks, sea-chests, barrels - that can be carried by players between servers.

How to do it simply is explained below.

 
   Add another term to the definition when the object-X instance spawns

    =   {code}

   So that object-X instance definition becomes =  {object} {code} {condition} {coordiates} {..etc}

   the "code" is made up from one word (64 bits should do it). Easy to parse. It contains :

       =time (spawn-date/hour/second)=

       =server number (or server IP)=

       =serial number=

       generating the time stamp and server number is trivial  (right?)
       the "serial number" is generated sequentially for each object that spawn on a single server, by the server.
       There is NO requirement for cross-referencing of any element withing the {code} integer, with other servers or with a central registry,  
 
       The "serial" can be assigned as many digits as convenient. When the server reaches the max serial number it begins again with zero.
       The time stamp and server number guarantee the string is unique and can never be confused with any other string generated on that server or   any other server - even if one single object-X instance stays "live" in play and moves between servers for years.
       There is no need to cross check with other servers as you have already included the server number and the time stamp with the serial number  {code}. So each {code} is KNOWN to be unique without verification, and cannot be duplicated
       On a single server, two object-X instances cannot be generated with the same serial number at the same moment.
          

  Whenever an object-X spawns it receives instance definition =  {object} {condition} {coordiates} {code}

       This {code} is only needed for transportable containers -IMO- as containers are used in Duping.

       It could be extended if necessary, from this simplest structure. But I do not see that this is required.  

       *
      

       A player carrying object-x instance logs in to a server :

       Say, he carries an instance of "backpack A" (plus maybe an oil-drum - or more than one container)

      
       We already have the list of object-x instances  on the server.  
       (we know the CLE already handles the math of instance in play & spawn, this information is locally available)
       Each instance on the server is listed at present as < object-X instance plus {coordinates} .. etc >  - this is true at present.

       However, at instance spawn we have extended this list to < object-X instance plus {coordinates} plus {code} .. etc>

      The player logs in to a server with object-x instance  (backpack A) + (Sea-chest) ..

      We KNOW what the player carries.
     
      We KNOW what object-x instance (backpack A) are already on this server
       
      Compare serial numbers

      If two serial numbers match for object-x instances (backpack A)  - the instance held by the player is removed from the game.
      If two serial numbers match for object-x instances (oil-drum)        - the instance held by the player is removed from the game.

 

 Even suppose player Alpha logs out with his backpack AND leaves his backpack on the server (dupes it) so that a friend  can pick it up for him and move it off that server .. thise two backpacks can never meet on any given server ever ..   And who's to say that BI use this system on backpacks.. maybe they could use it on automatic weapons instead..   So that would seriously mess woth duping as it exists - 100% - and would grtavemy HINDER and discourage more complex duping maneuvers.   I expect ti would end them.

The simplicity of the system is that two servers never have to communicate with each other to check serial numbers. They only ever have to check the serials (case suggested) on containers carried by a player as he logs in to one server, against containers already on that server.

      One Question :
 
      From player login to completing a true/false numerical comparison of {code}s in the server's object-x instance list {codes} - only concerning containers carried by the player
      - how many clicks are required ?

      

     xxp

@ImpulZ  ?

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by pilgrim*
~

[ImpulZ 2491]

48 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

DUPING solution MINIMALIST

-snip-

I forwarded this to our programmers, and they assure me that while this solution seems to be perfect, it's not. While it is probably not impossible, it would require a lot of rework for the central economy to work, and the CE has a lot of open issues as it is.

One major point is, that the central economy is not holding every item individually for performance reasons. And this is not about saving a line of code per item, but about checking it across servers with every login.

There are also third factors, such as players causing server crashes which can completely mess with items, corrupting their saves.

Nevertheless it is not closed topic as we are still trying to find the perfect solution for this. We appreciate the thought you are putting into this, but naturally there can be technical constraints that can prevent seemingly simple solutions from working.

[pilgrim* 3513]

22 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

I forwarded this to our programmers, and they assure me that while this solution seems to be perfect, it's not. While it is probably not impossible, it would require a lot of rework for the central economy to work, and the CE has a lot of open issues as it is.

One major point is, that the central economy is not holding every item individually for performance reasons. And this is not about saving a line of code per item, but about checking it across servers with every login.

There are also third factors, such as players causing server crashes which can completely mess with items, corrupting their saves.

Nevertheless it is not closed topic as we are still trying to find the perfect solution for this. We appreciate the thought you are putting into this, but naturally there can be technical constraints that can prevent seemingly simple solutions from working.

Yes - thanks for that @ImpulZ

My idea was to AVOID having to "explicitly" cross reference between servers at any time  - because in duping  ( as I understand it ) you only have to worry when the SAME instance turns up TWICE on the SAME server at the SAME time .. so my idea was to catch that as it happens ..  

But point taken & thanx

& thanx programmer also.

xxP 

Edited April 27, 2019 by pilgrim*

[Derleth 1352]

Just be done with server hopping for good and all is well.

Seriously, in a game where there is no character progression beyond gear, why should anyone care about needing to start on a new character if we swap servers? That it still is so unregulated in DayZ is an enigma to me, with DayZ's outspoken aim to achieve authenticity. Most other MMO:s out there have strictly server-bound characters - or slow and/or expensive processes to transfer characters between servers - making it something you only do if you really have to.

Starting over is not the end of the world in DayZ - for heaven's sake we are all one measly headshot from getting tossed back to the coast at ALL TIMES anyway. So what if you have mates on another server? Just log in on that server then, and play the game. Pretend you got shot. Easy.

Server hopping makes a mess of server economy, enables duping and enables ghosting, which in turn makes building bases on public servers utterly meaningless. In short, it creates a heap of major issues for very little gain. I just don't understand why we are even talking about this...

[g4borg 74]

On 4/26/2019 at 3:52 PM, Derleth said:

Just be done with server hopping for good and all is well.

I tend to agree, that server hopping is a subpar solution. initially i thought they wanted to make a server-independent system, where you switch server instances with your network bubble. 

kinda like “Star Citizen” or “Dual Universe” aim to implement it (which however is questionable if they even succeed at this, as this has never been done yet successfully - but it kinda begs the question, if it is not the age of cloud computing, where such a solution would begin a new era of online gaming, but i digress)
however, I do find, the server hopping could be solved really better by “extracting” and “landing” on the island in some way. If you really want to go from one server to another, this being possible is not bad, but it does not need to be as it is now. Since as it is now, you can simply walk into other players' bases, and other ghosting tactics.
To be honest, this was a personal project of mine, by looking at what I saw from Escape from Tarkov, or remembering the good old Ultima Online times where you had a magic bank account, you could access in each town: simply have a player storage, you can return to, equip items, and start into the game, and have a specific extraction goal (reaching a bunker, flaring for a chopper, driving out with a boat, etc.) to return to that magic place. From there you could either be smuggled back to one of the insertion points, or jump in via plane, or come by boat. This is what I would have modded my server to play like to. Atm. this is on hold, as without mod-loading, proper DB access, or interprocess communication, I struggle to do it.
I am pretty sure, DayZ needs such a spin, to evolve (not just watering it down with trader cities or ten thousand different items)

To the technical solution of Duping, I got also my two cents

given the current solution, and it's downsides, which IMHO is mainly a problem of communication between the central player database and the instanced server (less an issue of the actual economy system), I find it a bit of overkill, to mark every item generated on the server with a serial number. However, items which players do bring into the game, and items which they take out of the game, could be added with a serial number.

However the main issue seems to be communication with the player database and servers. I had this happening already by accident, as I died to a Zombie, logged off, relogged, and spawned just where I was before I died, and ran from a player shooting at me. In this case I was happy about Groundhog day, as I could escape my death the second time, even if the stakes were higher.

I understand that fixing this issue, of proper communication between servers and player db, has it's caveats. Locking the player character from relogging, until the old server reports what happened to it in the instance, would be the best solution. However of course, what if the server goes down - crash or restart?

The solution seems actually to tackle it at its source, with some proper protocol of how server instances get player characters, like in some financial transmission or object database:

• A server can lease a player. A leased player is completely managed by the server database.
• The Server can update the lease, by sending a current status of the player occasionally.
• Each time a player logs in the server asks if his lease is valid, and proceeds to load the local cache copy of the player if yes, or retrieve the current player from the central database, if not.
• If the player wants to play on another server, the leased server has to have transmitted its current data, and returned the lease. This is the tricky part.

Now there are two ways to accomplish this server2server: one is to have the servers listen to active push notifications from the player db, which asks them to submit the latest version of their leased player. This might be extra work, but it might be worth it.
The other is to rely on periodic lease updates, and give a grace timer until the next update window. This of course increases the server traffic needlessly, better is the server polls the central db for current tasks, and in such gets informed to inform about the current player state of one if its leases.
If the server fails to respond, and only then, in the grace time period, the player gets reset to the last centrally saved state / character.
This might still allow duping by abusing server restarts, but only between two servers, and only once in a while. It certainly does not allow to dupe on the same server.

Together with the solution, to tag serial numbers to items players have brought into the world, and maybe even revamping the whole system you travel between servers, this could make duping really hard.

Of course this assumes, duping is mainly done with the central player database being abused. But everything else is a major flaw in your object instancing and server authority model.
 

Edited May 6, 2019 by g4borg