Who actually build bases and repair cars?

[Evilsausage 87]

Both basebuilding and car repair is something I haven't even bothered with. It feels too much of a hassle for such a small payoff. 

By the looks of it, this is what most people seam to think. Now I'm a bussy man and haven't played that much since 1.0. Maybe 30 hours in total. 

On the unmodded server I played on, which usually is full. I have found tents and barrels. But haven't seen a snigle built base. I also haven't seen a single car driving around or any sign of people trying to repair them. 

Now I'm sure I will get some reaponses from players who talk about how they got 10 cars and blabla, because they are so pro etc... 

But atleast to me it feels like 98% of the players don't bother with this feature. I know both cars and basebuilding is wonky, but ffs its 1.0. Can't this be balanced properly?  This is supposed to be a major part of the endgame, isn't it a massive failure if barely anyone bothers with it?  How many more years are we gonna have to wait for the game to be conciderd finished?

 

Atm once I get decent endgame weapons I just use that time to hunt players. Because lets face it, there really isn't anyhing else that is exciting enough. The PVP is DayZs most exciting aspect, the survival vs enviroment becomes easy quite fast. Once you have hoarded enough loot, there really isn't much else to do. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Evilsausage

[eno 1049]

2 hours ago, Evilsausage said:

Snip: All valid points...

 

We are building right now and have "A" car... there are a few (6) of us involved so base building was more of an experiment and we found the car (completed) hidden in a small town barn... With that said- I empathize with the frustration.

Bases are too hard to build and too easy to destroy or be picked through... They're finicky to build to an obnoxious degree while raiding them is all about having a tool and a roll of duct tape. Those on the periphery of the game likely figure persistence is a crash away from wiping away hours of otherwise thankless effort. It will let you build sections that won't play well with one another... It risks being a colossal waste of time.

A person can run from the coast to Tisy, hop servers and be fully geared to the satisfaction of a large percentage of the player base and back to the coast in about 3 hours. It takes half a dozen people 3 hours just to find 6 boxes of nails... And at least that much or more to get a car built and keep it on the greasy side.

Meanwhile car parts are so far apart, bulky to carry and cars regularly spawn in with next to nothing... they take a long time to build and when found contrarians simply shoot them a few times, ruin them and cause them to despawn. Driving them anywhere still runs an element of risk that many aren't ready to take... There are exceptions- guys like @Parazight have a unique awareness about the limitations of driving and work within them but the average player only knows of the "get in, die" problems that still occur as far as I know. I wouldn't want to try to build a car as a fresh spawn... which is the time where a person is most likely to accept risk.

I did run into the beginning of a base last night in my travels and the place was actually pretty well located from a detection standpoint but inconvenient from a resource standpoint... finding nails is extremely tedious and their base is proximal to the same industrial areas as ours- so we're out vacuuming up each other's nails. I'll be watching this little base shape up (it was just a fence kit and the logs needed to dig in)... but I doubt it will. I suspect the person will get bored with it and move on. 

 

It's not an easy problem to solve... it's a game environment that is difficult to balance but I hope constructive feedback helps the dev team polish the cannonball to a point where the largest cross section of players can see their reflection in it. 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by eno

[nl 986]

Cars are a pain in the ass too, way to easy to damge them and ahrd to find parts. In my experience you can jog faster from a to b then using a car just of the time it takes to keep that thing running. I gues when you are base building you can't do without one if you wanna haul some materials.

[SmashT 10907]

I haven't had much luck with cars, last three attempts resulted in me violently bouncing around so much I either died or just abandonned the idea.

[gorvi 189]

Besides the technical problems still being worked on this sounds like another "Muh responsibilities.  Make DayZ easier for ME" type of post.  For that I'm sure there will be lots of easy mode custom servers soon enough.

 

For vanilla, users need to approach the game reasonably and level-headed.  If fixing a car or making a base is too difficult or time consuming you can either try to group up and split the work load or change your tactics such as using banditry to achieve your goals.  Nothing in this game was designed to be easy but instead intuitive and authentic.

 

Trying to brute force the game mechanics be it in game or on the forums are just going to lead to further frustrations.

 

On a final note about bases.  They were never intended to be a 100% safebox for users.  I'm sure we will see many more improvements and deterrents in the future but as it stands they are geared toward active groups.  Hiding tents and burring stashes would be a much more reliable solution for single players or small groups.

[Parazight 1594]

5 hours ago, Evilsausage said:

It feels too much of a hassle for such a small payoff. 

See, the problem with loot, cars, bases, and acquiring things isn't really with the loot itself.  Loot, and things, don't really matter.  Only knowledge matters.  Once you accept the fact that knowing mechanics, how to fight, reading map signs, understanding typical player behavior, where to get things, and how not to die to the environment are the most important aspects then you realize how trivial loot really is.   Become callous to dying because you don't care about loot.  After this, you're able to fight without freezing to tension.  You then recognize the bugs and find the work-arounds.  You experiment with bases, despite knowing they could be gone at any time.  But that doesn't matter, because knowledge is more important than shiny things.  Knowing the game is ultimate workaround to permadeath.  Loot doesn't enhance your experience, experience enhances the time you use.  

Dayz is game about theft.  Theft of the time you invest putting importance on loot. Getting loot helps you survive, but this is easy, because of your knowledge of the game.  Doing things, like pointlessly building bases is a great time sink that increases your knowledge of the game.  Loot is dumb, interacting with other people, the purpose of MMOs and interacting with society is the goal, because humans are social animals and much more competent than static AI.

It's not about having bases and cars, it's about doing the things.

My brother, some of his friends and I have bases on multiple official servers, with like, SIX cars there.  Bases get wiped, so we rebuild them, it's not any sort of loss.

Spoiler

 

 

 

[eno 1049]

13 minutes ago, Parazight said:

See, the problem with loot, cars, bases, and acquiring things isn't really with the loot itself.  Loot, and things, don't really matter.  Only knowledge matters.  Once you accept the fact that knowing mechanics, how to fight, reading map signs, understanding typical player behavior, where to get things, and how not to die to the environment are the most important aspects then you realize how trivial loot really is.   Become callous to dying because you don't care about loot.  After this, you're able to fight without freezing to tension.  You then recognize the bugs and find the work-arounds.  You experiment with bases, despite knowing they could be gone at any time.  But that doesn't matter, because knowledge is more important than shiny things.  Knowing the game is ultimate workaround to permadeath.  Loot doesn't enhance your experience, experience enhances the time you use.  

Dayz is game about theft.  Theft of the time you invest putting importance on loot. Getting loot helps you survive, but this is easy, because of your knowledge of the game.  Doing things, like pointlessly building bases is a great time sink that increases your knowledge of the game.  Loot is dumb, interacting with other people, the purpose of MMOs and interacting with society is the goal, because humans are social animals and much more competent than static AI.

It's not about having bases and cars, it's about doing the things.

My brother, some of his friends and I have bases on multiple official servers, with like, SIX cars there.  Bases get wiped, so we rebuild them, it's not any sort of loss.

 

That base is always an inspiration. 

I understand the argument about "doing the things." 

My stance is similar- but if "doing the things" that are able to provide a more substantial experience to a broader spectrum of people are so tedious and vulnerable that they resort to the short term forgettable experience it will repel players more than it will retain them.

DayZ pvp at least in terms of official is not what it does best (actually, arguably I suppose it is right now)... but I live in a league of people who wants the official vanilla to get dialed in at least enough to provide a balanced PVE experience and a credible PVP threat. I think it's getting there. Make cold kill. Make raw animal meat a hazard. Make bases a little easier to build and a little harder to raid (since this too should be an endgame challenge)... make vehicles reliable to the average player. 

And for fuck sakes dial back the pea coats. (lol)

[gorvi 189]

30 minutes ago, Parazight said:

Loot, and things, don't really matter.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.  That might be the current situation until persistence is fully working as intended but loot will very much matter.  Just like your people is a resource analogy, materials are also a resource.  The only stickied post on the general forum is for trading and this should ultimately reflect what will be a huge part of the game.

 

[eno 1049]

5 minutes ago, gorvi said:

The only stickied post on the general forum is for trading and this should ultimately reflect what will be a huge part of the game.

Posted originally in 2014 and contributed to 8 times since the end of 2017... 

Not sure but I think the game has changed directions... which is unfortunate. 

[gorvi 189]

19 minutes ago, eno said:

Posted originally in 2014 and contributed to 8 times since the end of 2017... 

Not sure but I think the game has changed directions... which is unfortunate. 

If you're so cynical then why even bother trolling the forums?  Devs are still following the original vision and nothing has changed regarding that.  Persistance issues aside, the loot economy was always designed to be more than simple spawn points.  It was to offer a supply and demand type system that would encourage players to interact be it through whatever means.

 

If you wish for a different game or playstyle there will be custom servers or other games which might meet your standards.

[eno 1049]

23 minutes ago, gorvi said:

Devs are still following the original vision and nothing has changed regarding that. 

Okay then. 

Back to trolling I guess...

Edited February 23, 2019 by eno

[Evilsausage 87]

1 hour ago, gorvi said:

Besides the technical problems still being worked on this sounds like another "Muh responsibilities.  Make DayZ easier for ME" type of post.  For that I'm sure there will be lots of easy mode custom servers soon enough.

 

For vanilla, users need to approach the game reasonably and level-headed.  If fixing a car or making a base is too difficult or time consuming you can either try to group up and split the work load or change your tactics such as using banditry to achieve your goals.  Nothing in this game was designed to be easy but instead intuitive and authentic.

 

Trying to brute force the game mechanics be it in game or on the forums are just going to lead to further frustrations.

 

On a final note about bases.  They were never intended to be a 100% safebox for users.  I'm sure we will see many more improvements and deterrents in the future but as it stands they are geared toward active groups.  Hiding tents and burring stashes would be a much more reliable solution for single players or small groups.

It's always very black and white with the DayZ community. Where there can't be a middle ground.  I remember when people before complained rain killed people really fast and you couldn't make a fire indoors. Such a fun gameplay that was...ofc some players defended that

Sure now its too easy to survive the cold instead. Which isnt good either... Thats why we need to have a discussion about things. To find a middleground. 

I'm sure there are custom servers that have more easy access to cars. But custom servers tend to go too far towards casual gameplay on all aspects. Thats why I think its good if the core game is properly designed by default. 

I agree bases should not be 100% safe. But if barely anyone even bothers with it. Then something is clearly wrong. 

1 hour ago, Parazight said:

See, the problem with loot, cars, bases, and acquiring things isn't really with the loot itself.  Loot, and things, don't really matter.  Only knowledge matters.  Once you accept the fact that knowing mechanics, how to fight, reading map signs, understanding typical player behavior, where to get things, and how not to die to the environment are the most important aspects then you realize how trivial loot really is.   Become callous to dying because you don't care about loot.  After this, you're able to fight without freezing to tension.  You then recognize the bugs and find the work-arounds.  You experiment with bases, despite knowing they could be gone at any time.  But that doesn't matter, because knowledge is more important than shiny things.  Knowing the game is ultimate workaround to permadeath.  Loot doesn't enhance your experience, experience enhances the time you use.  

Dayz is game about theft.  Theft of the time you invest putting importance on loot. Getting loot helps you survive, but this is easy, because of your knowledge of the game.  Doing things, like pointlessly building bases is a great time sink that increases your knowledge of the game.  Loot is dumb, interacting with other people, the purpose of MMOs and interacting with society is the goal, because humans are social animals and much more competent than static AI.

It's not about having bases and cars, it's about doing the things.

My brother, some of his friends and I have bases on multiple official servers, with like, SIX cars there.  Bases get wiped, so we rebuild them, it's not any sort of loss.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

True it is about doing things. Like I said i'm sure there are some devoted people out there that take time to do that. Like your people that have six cars. But this very very rare. Very few people out there actually do it. 

If its so rare, could it be that its not properly designed? Who knows maybe more people would team up and "do things" if it was more encouraging to do so?

[gorvi 189]

2 minutes ago, Evilsausage said:

Sure now its too easy to survive the cold instead. Which isnt good either... Thats why we need to have a discussion about things. To find a middleground.

This isn't a game design choice though.  Its simply a condition of missing features which aren't prioritized.

 

Personally I'd rather have a stable game where I die from game mechanics rather then crashes and server database issues.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

Dayz isn't finished yet, so you can't judge it yet. you can only guess what it will be like in the end when it is finished.

[eno 1049]

39 minutes ago, green_mtn_grandbob said:

Dayz isn't finished yet, so you can't judge it yet. you can only guess what it will be like in the end when it is finished.

Just to be clear- So... nobody is allowed to have an opinion about the state of anything until someone declares that it's "finished?"

[Evilsausage 87]

1 hour ago, green_mtn_grandbob said:

Dayz isn't finished yet, so you can't judge it yet. you can only guess what it will be like in the end when it is finished.

I have heard those arguments since the Alpha. I hope you do understand that the whole point of alphas and betas is to judge the game. That way the devs have an idea of what the people like and not like. So they can focus on fixing what needs to be fixed. 

Here we are 2019, like six years into development. DayZ reached 1.0 two months ago and they now charge full price for the game. 

Yet even now we can't judge it? Sorry but thats rubbish. 

[Parazight 1594]

2 hours ago, Evilsausage said:

But this very very rare. Very few people out there actually do it.

How do you know this?  Where are you getting your metrics?

[eno 1049]

3 hours ago, Parazight said:

How do you know this?  Where are you getting your metrics?

To be fair to that guy, our group has put a lot of miles on the map and we've never seen a car actually in use  (out driving around- we've found a couple partially completed and parked) nor found another base... With the exception of the  single fence kit and log I saw last night. (This is, of course, excluding our experience with your vehicle and base on a community public server). 

So whether there's a formal metric I think deductive reasoning does provide some plausible measure of suggestion that neither game feature is in popular use in official public vanilla. 

Edited February 24, 2019 by eno

[emuthreat 2837]

2 hours ago, eno said:

To be fair to that guy, our group has put a lot of miles on the map and we've never seen a car actually in use  (out driving around- we've found a couple partially completed and parked) nor found another base... With the exception of the  single fence kit and log I saw last night. (This is, of course, excluding our experience with your vehicle and base on a community public server). 

So whether there's a formal metric I think deductive reasoning does provide some plausible measure of suggestion that neither game feature is in popular use in official public vanilla. 

What is the average and peak population on your home server?

[eno 1049]

It will commonly swell to full during the day on game but it’s a 6.2x speed server... so it fluctuates often. It’s a regular official server so while many of the IL / GA / TX / WA etc servers are local time the xxxxxx307 etc servers are largely time accelerated. As the local time servers get dark ours will fill up. 

[gorvi 189]

9 hours ago, eno said:

Just to be clear- So... nobody is allowed to have an opinion about the state of anything until someone declares that it's "finished?"

Just to be clear.  Nobody is allowed to have an opinion about your opinion?  Am I getting this right?

[eno 1049]

6 minutes ago, gorvi said:

Just to be clear.  Nobody is allowed to have an opinion about your opinion?  Am I getting this right?

Huh... did you have one of those? Must have missed it. 

[Guy Smiley 534]

Well, there's three different types of players that I can tell that play DayZ.  You got Bob the Builder type, Rambo type and the in between type, the normal people.  Bob the builder just wants to build his home, white picket fence and grow his garden.  Rambo want to run the the nearest military base and load up on thousands of round of ammo and a couple dozen guns and the normal person just want to play the damn game and hope that it fucking works

[gorvi 189]

22 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

the normal person just want to play the damn game and hope that it fucking works

This is absolutely the main concern with devs.  Once they are finished getting the servers more stable and polishing recently added features I'm sure they have a backlog of assets to power through.

 

It does no good to keep adding stuff if they can't pinpoint if its the engine or the feature causing the issues.

[Guy Smiley 534]

14 minutes ago, gorvi said:

This is absolutely the main concern with devs.  Once they are finished getting the servers more stable and polishing recently added features I'm sure they have a backlog of assets to power through.

 

It does no good to keep adding stuff if they can't pinpoint if its the engine or the feature causing the issues.

But they listen to the people yelling and screaming the loudest, hence why we got base building instead of fortification.  Instead of working on survival, they are adding more guns.  The weather system is completely borked.  It's been raining off and on in my server but today is the first time I've gotten wet and cold from it but, you know, guns