Not surprised by negativity about upcoming 1.0

[Mantasisg 172]

I am not a popular guy around current DayZ community, and I always knew why. It is same reason why news about 1.0 are unpopular. And those are wrong reasons. 

I have always been big advocate of something what real DayZ is in my head, and I have zero doubt that it really is main thing, the whole essence of DayZ. It is other people, other players. The way we interact in this virtual world, it is always unexpected, always a different experience, always remarkable. Well at least it used to be, before DayZ began working against themselves by adjusting DayZ in a way that you met less and less people, spent more and more time just looting and so on... Reduced amount of interactions had bad impact on whole social system of a game, as a result the main goal of DayZ which is unique experiences suffered a lot.

Who has continued to play ? Either big big fans, or people who enjoy running a lot in virtual world and pretending that they are challenged by something and collecting all weapons in their empty servers. 

Now this has turned out against DayZ. I read lots of posts in reddit how players are impacted by lesser amount of weapons, even going pretty much straight forward that it was their kind of game, basically becoming kings of items. I tried to write something about experience, interactions... you know all that stuff that current DayZ community doesn't care, no success. The results of the "desired features poll" are showing it perfectly. The feature "More weapons" just simply dominated. First of all, it is quite sad that "more guns" is considered as a feature in a first place. Secondly, it just shows that DayZ in past few years has developed a weapons collectors, looters community, which doesn't appreciate true essence of DayZ. 

 My personal opinion about amount of weapons. I think the amount of weapons, just like the size of the map can work against the game. Like it is possible to make people never run against each other in huge map, it is possible to make guns to make never run to fitting ammo or magazine if you'll have a lot of them. Also people are freaking out about realism without any logic sometimes, wishing for over complicated ridiculous mechanics and so on... what about it not being real to have such a crazy variety of weapons in 14x14km area ? Or almost never finding bullets and/or magazines nearby ? Is it realistic ? It is in order to achieve a certain gameplay. There is no gameplay in looting and collecting weapons in empty server.

However, I'm just asuming that 1.0 will have good gameplay. So we will see how it will play.

Plus, @Kirov (DayZ) wrote very true thing about negativity towards news. It is more than likely that 1.0 might not be enjoyable only for part of current community, new players or players comming back might find it very good. So you shouldn't have played thousands of hours already, it is your fault :D Lesser pack of the game might also be more than enough for newcomers and if content and features will be added regularly and fast enough, then it will be no problem at all. 

So chill out, and lets wait what kind of game 1.0 will turn out to be. I think 1.0 is a major overreaction, and I think Devs did good decision. Less is more. 

[IMT 3190]

I'm sorry sir, but I believe you are in the wrong section. I think the Escape From Tarkov forum is the thing you're looking for. I'm not going to explain the genre and concept of the game yet again to you. I have done so countless times in the past, I have tried to explain what DayZ is going to be like in the future but you just don't listen. Yes, the game is heavily influenced by player interaction but there are differences in player interaction. The absence of loot, weapons and what not enhance these interaction. Even not having interactions every 2 seconds will enhance them as well and I will explain why in a manner that even you can understand it.

Think about special meals like a Thanksgiving dinner. It is special, but why is it special? Because it only happens once a year, this makes it unique and special. If it would be every day or week then it isn't special and unique anymore. The same thing ties to interaction within DayZ. If you have an interaction every now and then, it stays special and unique. If you have one every 2 seconds, the game is less influenced by these interactions because they're suddenly not unique and special anymore.

Do you get it now? Also, I like how you think that new players or players coming back might find the game good, should 1.0 release in the mentioned state. Yes there might be an handful who like it but if 99 % of the remaining community is pissed including streamers and hardcore fans, I highly doubt that returning players are going to say "wow, this is amazing". Those players left for a reason you know and if they come back to a game which has less in it when they last played the game, I can't imagine they're going to be positive.

[Mantasisg 172]

You miss one thing, which is that majority of peaople doesn't like or can spend multiple hours in a game and achieve absolutely nothing, and have no challenge. 

Lets be a bit more exact and expand your two seconds to ~twenty minutes. Also lets assume that Chernarus is 14x14km and lots of different pace is achievable in different places. Also you miss a thing that spawning and loot economy is going to be adjustable, also allowing everyone to have his own best thing. You can simply play in lesser populated server...

Do you get it now ? DayZ essentially is a game which is full of potential, and appeal to creativity, has possibility to so many different ways of great experience. And you want it to work only in one way. But I am too tired to explain it all over again, I've done it so many times already. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Mantasisg

[Vernon_Price 135]

I think the ability to play a polished product without game breaking bugs, and ability to use ALL the core features that make DayZ, DayZ is more important for now than some helicopters, fishing, few guns and climbing. Notice i didn't mention fractures, i presonally like this feature... BUT, we've got limping for now, that effects our aim, speed and movement, it takes its part for now till fractures are ready. 

I get that having less guns might make the game less "expanded" in the way what guns people wear, but that's not something that would win over fun, and polished gameplay. I'll let myself to post here a thing i wrote on twitter, its a good and short read.

"That is exactly the plan they just told us, they wanna release a polished build, that they can finally start adding stuff with joy and speed, cause there won't be major bugs appearing every implementation of a gun or other thing, Eugen stated on discord that adding a gun and then not being able to open debug monitor isn't fun and progressive. That is why we NEED 1.0 in that shape, let's be honest here, few guns, helis and fishing won't hurt that beautiful game if its not in for few weeks or months, it would hurt it if it was in and not working. People needs to chill out, breathe and remember how much joy that Dev team gave us over these years, stop focusing only on negativity guys, support them, as a community."
Cheers! 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Vernon_Price

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

1 hour ago, Mantasisg said:

IPlus, @Kirov (DayZ) wrote very true thing about negativity towards news. It is more than likely that 1.0 might not be enjoyable only for part of current community, new players or players comming back might find it very good. So you shouldn't have played thousands of hours already, it is your fault :D Lesser pack of the game might also be more than enough for newcomers and if content and features will be added regularly and fast enough, then it will be no problem at all. 

So chill out, and lets wait what kind of game 1.0 will turn out to be. I think 1.0 is a major overreaction, and I think Devs did good decision. Less is more. 

Just to make sure - my stoic attitude comes only from the fact that I expect DayZ to stop lying about its 'gritty survival' part (right now it's everything but) in some 1.5-2 years from now. It's obvious that there's a lot to do feature-wise and no 1.0 mantra is going to handwave this away. Hence, I keep waiting.

Also, I'd like to clear things about this:

1 hour ago, Mantasisg said:

 It is other people, other players. The way we interact in this virtual world, it is always unexpected, always a different experience, always remarkable.

I want your copy of DayZ, because it's not the same game I have. I find the DayZ playerbase incredibly dull (or "unimaginative simpletons" if you will). Of course, this doesn't refer to any noble players in this remarkable forum. But in my 1800+ hrs, I had few interesting conversations and I discovered that when people say 'interactions', they usually just mean 'firefights'. And DayZ has always sucked as a shooter, if only due to 1) A-D dance, 2) boring reloot after each death.

Even in content-rich builds, most players' single-cell bird brains were incapable of forming a single thought different than "oh a player lets shoot him" (again, this is not about you guys, I'm sure that each and every one of you leads a fascinating life as a post-apocalyptic Survivor). This is why I wait for DayZ to actually become a difficult game, so that people actually struggle to survive in a bleak environment. And I want survivalist content for my lone-wolf gameplay.

Just yesterday, I was attacked by a freshie at Rog. He came at me ax-swinging, no talk. I tried to disengage, but he had better stamina. So I took out my crowbar and turned around to fight. We both frantically clicked LMB for a minute, then he dropped dead for some reason. For some people, it's just another day in DayZ, but I find farting a more thrilling experience.

OP,  if you care for interesting interactions, I recommend strategy games, either turn-based (like Civ) or RTS (like Paradox games). In such games, people use their brains to create compelling and thought-provoking situations. I'm sorry I can't say the same about DayZ player-base (excluding the readers of this exquisite forum, of course).

 

OK, I'm overdoing it a bit, but it would be nice if the OP's phrase "always a different experience" didn't in reality mean "wow, he can either shoot you with a Mosin or flank you with a shotgun, what a gamut of social interactions". And I hear from YT that .63 is much much worse (i.e. = shooty) than the previous builds.

[Mantasisg 172]

I totaly meant the same thing. It always should be so various, some friendly interactions, some battles, just simply everything possible and happening. To be more exact last few years of DayZ was super dull for me too. I had plenty of fun in DayZ in 0.54-0.57 or something like that, where "are you friendly" was a common phrase. It was rather often that you meet people, there always were bandits, or maybe some were just simpletons "I see i kill". But there definitely was some creative bandits, but half or maybe even more than half of players was friendly, and I used to have lots of conversations in DayZ.

Later it flipped, it became rare to meet people, conversations became super rare, as it became more rare to meet someone relatively "just killing" increased a lot. There is obvious correlation between amount of interactions and their quality. Super rare interactions might drive people into just going for pvp or kill, too much might spoil it, but i don't think there can be too much, map is simply too big for that.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

1 hour ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

OK, I'm overdoing it a bit, but it would be nice if the OP's phrase "always a different experience" didn't in reality mean "wow, he can either shoot you with a Mosin or flank you with a shotgun, what a gamut of social interactions". And I hear from YT that .63 is much much worse (i.e. = shooty) than the previous builds.

This.

[IMT 3190]

1 hour ago, Vernon_Price said:

"That is exactly the plan they just told us, they wanna release a polished build, that they can finally start adding stuff with joy and speed, cause there won't be major bugs appearing every implementation of a gun or other thing, Eugen stated on discord that adding a gun and then not being able to open debug monitor isn't fun and progressive. That is why we NEED 1.0 in that shape, let's be honest here, few guns, helis and fishing won't hurt that beautiful game if its not in for few weeks or months, it would hurt it if it was in and not working. People needs to chill out, breathe and remember how much joy that Dev team gave us over these years, stop focusing only on negativity guys, support them, as a community."

It's a nice quote but this was a quote which would've worked back then, not now. Remember? Because I do. Now you're probably thinking what. Well, the engine took a long time to develop, we gave them their time. But we were told, once the engine is in place, the features will come in at a fast pace. The engine has been in for over a year by now, yet there aren't that many features, what's up with that? Now we hear "the game is unstable and is riddled with bugs", wasn't that why they got the new engine in the first place? So now we're essentialy back to square one. Not only that, but if all these new features left the game unstable and full of bugs, new features after 1.0 will introduce new bugs and make the game unstable again. At that point, we're in an infinite loop where they implement some features, fix bugs and polish the game to implement features again, rinse and repeat.

Now there are other options of course. How about they do a feature freeze, fix bugs and polish the game and start implementing features again when they're done with that. Once all the features are in, the bugs are fixed and the game is polished, release the game and call it 1.0. You know, the way it was supposed to be. "Oh my God IMT, you're so brilliant, this is next level thinking". I should win a medal for that.

I really don't understand why they want to throw out this 1.0 so quickly when they just can do the above. Same effect only a very different outcome because the community isn't going to be outraged.

1 hour ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

Just to make sure - my stoic attitude comes only from the fact that I expect DayZ to stop lying about its 'gritty survival' part (right now it's everything but) in some 1.5-2 years from now. It's obvious that there's a lot to do feature-wise and no 1.0 mantra is going to handwave this away. Hence, I keep waiting.

Also, I'd like to clear things about this:

I want your copy of DayZ, because it's not the same game I have. I find the DayZ playerbase incredibly dull (or "unimaginative simpletons" if you will). Of course, this doesn't refer to any noble players in this remarkable forum. But in my 1800+ hrs, I had few interesting conversations and I discovered that when people say 'interactions', they usually just mean 'firefights'. And DayZ has always sucked as a shooter, if only due to 1) A-D dance, 2) boring reloot after each death.

Even in content-rich builds, most players' single-cell bird brains were incapable of forming a single thought different than "oh a player lets shoot him" (again, this is not about you guys, I'm sure that each and every one of you leads a fascinating life as a post-apocalyptic Survivor). This is why I wait for DayZ to actually become a difficult game, so that people actually struggle to survive in a bleak environment. And I want survivalist content for my lone-wolf gameplay.

Just yesterday, I was attacked by a freshie at Rog. He came at me ax-swinging, no talk. I tried to disengage, but he had better stamina. So I took out my crowbar and turned around to fight. We both frantically clicked LMB for a minute, then he dropped dead for some reason. For some people, it's just another day in DayZ, but I find farting a more thrilling experience.

OP,  if you care for interesting interactions, I recommend strategy games, either turn-based (like Civ) or RTS (like Paradox games). In such games, people use their brains to create compelling and thought-provoking situations. I'm sorry I can't say the same about DayZ player-base (excluding the readers of this exquisite forum, of course).

 

OK, I'm overdoing it a bit, but it would be nice if the OP's phrase "always a different experience" didn't in reality mean "wow, he can either shoot you with a Mosin or flank you with a shotgun, what a gamut of social interactions". And I hear from YT that .63 is much much worse (i.e. = shooty) than the previous builds.

Very much this. This is the same exact game I want to see and I think as you mentioned a few times already, most of the people on this forum as well. It's a survival game after all, that is what we signed up for and that is what we want to receive.

Edited October 25, 2018 by IMT

[Guy Smiley 534]

The biggest problem is that everyone has their own version of DayZ because of the countless mods that came out.  For some, Epoch was the only version of DayZ that they know and it's the one they want but the reality of it is that Epoch was not DayZ.  That was not Dean Hall's game but it appears that the devs seem to want to appease to the casual crowd and take Dean's vision and crap all over it.

[-Gews- 7443]

14 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

 I think 1.0 is a major overreaction, and I think Devs did good decision.

Why do you think they made a good decision?

Why is it better to release 1.0 in 2018 than to wait until the game is more feature-complete?

Can you explain the advantages of releasing 1.0 in what many consider an unfinished state?

[Mantasisg 172]

Because you have to adjust your ambitions realistically, and good quality has to be always priority over quantity. Obviously DayZ is huge task, especially as it is suspicious that Bohemia didn't put adequate resources, or for some particular reasons it happened to be rather tight on man power, I just can't imagine how much heavy it is for the ones responsible for coding. 

It is quite obvious that nowadays people are rather spoiled, and gaming has never been so much about hype and craving for new/next content, items... the experience is getting pushed to the background in games industry. DayZ did many mistakes raising the bar... Now it has to come back to reality. 

The way I see it is that game is not going to be postponed years further because of some content and features, which aren't essential. Also it will be possible to finish the foundation, imagine it would be difficult to build foundation while building walls and roof at the same time while the building is also being exploited already. We just have to accept our "loss", to me it is sad that there aren't going to be bikes/bicycles, whats worse is that they are not even mentioned at all.. I am often really sick of running for hours, really bad lack of variety in ways of travel. Probably will have to rely on some modded gimmick bikes/bicycles. But I don't worry too much, because IMO DayZ only needs good gameplay in the first place, which is mostly depended on basic stuff like spawn points, loot economy... and of course the proper foundation which will mean that game will run well. 

The wait is also killing DayZ, and devs, not hard to understand that.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Mantasisg

[Guy Smiley 534]

Lack of vehicles is not the problem.  Lack of bikes is not the problem.  One of the problems is people just want to rush to the end which always confused me.  Sandbox and endgame?  Where if you die, you can pretty much lose your "endgame gear"?  The other problem is the lack of anything meaningful towards the quest for epic loot.   What I mean by that is in between travelling from town to town, there is nothing.  No infected randomly travelling down the road, no animals in the forests, nothing to distract peoples quest for their epic loot.  The only thing people have been yammering on for years is, vehicles and guns.  Not actual gameplay.

[sneakydude 480]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:25 AM, IMT said:

I'm sorry sir, but I believe you are in the wrong section. I think the Escape From Tarkov forum is the thing you're looking for. I'm not going to explain the genre and concept of the game yet again to you. I have done so countless times in the past, I have tried to explain what DayZ is going to be like in the future but you just don't listen. Yes, the game is heavily influenced by player interaction but there are differences in player interaction. The absence of loot, weapons and what not enhance these interaction. Even not having interactions every 2 seconds will enhance them as well and I will explain why in a manner that even you can understand it.

Think about special meals like a Thanksgiving dinner. It is special, but why is it special? Because it only happens once a year, this makes it unique and special. If it would be every day or week then it isn't special and unique anymore. The same thing ties to interaction within DayZ. If you have an interaction every now and then, it stays special and unique. If you have one every 2 seconds, the game is less influenced by these interactions because they're suddenly not unique and special anymore.

Do you get it now? Also, I like how you think that new players or players coming back might find the game good, should 1.0 release in the mentioned state. Yes there might be an handful who like it but if 99 % of the remaining community is pissed including streamers and hardcore fans, I highly doubt that returning players are going to say "wow, this is amazing". Those players left for a reason you know and if they come back to a game which has less in it when they last played the game, I can't imagine they're going to be positive.

That wall of text came off as "I am your father Luke" your going to listen to me or else. LOL

[sneakydude 480]

11 hours ago, -Gews- said:

Why do you think they made a good decision?

Why is it better to release 1.0 in 2018 than to wait until the game is more feature-complete?

Can you explain the advantages of releasing 1.0 in what many consider an unfinished state?

I personally think that 1.0 is a huge mistake if we have major bugs still in the game. It will alienate even more long time followers even further. It has to be majority bug free.

Basically spamming the water well type bug free. As long as the core concept is in the game, and other pieces are added in we should be much better off then we where years ago. Changing the system again and again delays things.

 

First get Netcoding perfect, then we might have less to complain about. I still am waiting for the release to see whats up. Otherwise it sits on the shelf until then. This way i am not overly disappointed of the core mechanics again.

But that's just my opinion.

[ImpulZ 2491]

3 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

We just have to accept our "loss", to me it is sad that there aren't going to be bikes/bicycles, whats worse is that they are not even mentioned at all..

We announced in November 2017 already that those would be postponed past 1.0, together with vehicle modification, barricading, birds and planes.

Edited October 26, 2018 by ImpulZ

[Private Evans 1303]

6 minutes ago, ImpulZ said:

We announced in November 2017 already that those would be postponed past 1.0, together with vehicle modification, barricading, birds and planes.

You also announced that beta will not make it before Christmas 2017 allthough you tried hard, but for sure in 2018, with , once released, rapid and regular content updates... "speaking of weeks here not months" 

[ImpulZ 2491]

9 minutes ago, Private Evans said:

You also announced that beta will not make it before Christmas 2017 allthough you tried hard, but for sure in 2018, with , once released, rapid and regular content updates... "speaking of weeks here not months" 

The quote "weeks not months" was used in the context of the beginning of the Stress Tests, which happened 6 weeks after the announcement was made.

We also announced to bring BETA and 1.0 this year, which we intend to keep as well.

[amadieus 313]

Sometimes I get the feeling that people expected content and features on a biweekly basis when 0.63 would hit experimental. There is literally no game that does that. Having a major patch every 2 months (exactly how it went from the moment 0.63 hit stress test branch) is actually pretty decent.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

1 hour ago, amadieus said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that people expected content and features on a biweekly basis when 0.63 would hit experimental. There is literally no game that does that. Having a major patch every 2 months (exactly how it went from the moment 0.63 hit stress test branch) is actually pretty decent.

This is not what this entire fuss is about.

[Poolofdeath1337 8]

5 hours ago, ImpulZ said:

The quote "weeks not months" was used in the context of the beginning of the Stress Tests, which happened 6 weeks after the announcement was made.

We also announced to bring BETA and 1.0 this year, which we intend to keep as well.

If this time frame is real I'd throw a party. But ultimately this will boil down too you guy releasing a statement less then a month away saying due to unforseen bugs 1.0 won't launch till mid 2019. This has been the case with your company since back in patch .41 when duping was still very popular.

 

[amadieus 313]

On 26-10-2018 at 6:18 PM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

This is not what this entire fuss is about.

I never said that. Nevertheless, enough people are complaining that DayZ does not have enough content at the end of this year, regardless of the version number. And use an quote from the dev team that stated that development would speed up when the new engine would be in place.

[sneakydude 480]

13 hours ago, amadieus said:

I never said that. Nevertheless, enough people are complaining that DayZ does not have enough content at the end of this year, regardless of the version number. And use an quote from the dev team that stated that development would speed up when the new engine would be in place.

Yup and i remember that too.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

There's just SOOO many bugs and unpolished things in the current stress test builds I cannot possibly imagine BI making their current end year goals.

The consensus we see among the long time player base (PvP and PvE players both) should be a great implication that after 5 years we demand more than just parity with Fortnight.

BI has used up all of the patience even the most dedicated people had afforded them.

All of the more complacent viewpoints are from people with less than 3 years experience with the SA.

I'm still waiting to hear why throwing items and vaulting/climbing was so far down on the list of things to do....

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 10/26/2018 at 2:58 PM, sneakydude said:

That wall of text came off as "I am your father Luke" your going to listen to me or else. LOL

Nah, in fact he says " I am your father, Luke. - Look into your heart you know it to be true. "

[Private Evans 1303]

1 hour ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

 

I'm still waiting to hear why throwing items and vaulting/climbing was so far down on the list of things to do...

Throwing items, jumping, vaulting and climbing as well as cars and the helicopter were promised features for 1.0  So this stuff was not down on the list but they simply failed to implement them in time.

Barricading, planes, two wheeled vehicles were postponed ( down on the list) which is not cool but at least understandable somehow. Taking into account that the current stuff is buggy and unpolished as hell and the amount of missing items and weapons compared to 0.62 is massive....

 

We all can see the reactions on the Forums, Reddit, Youtube and Steam :(

 

PS: Bi was lucky that all competitors trying to create a similar game failed until now but this will probably change soon....

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Private Evans