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Baty Alquawen

0.63 Experimental Release Check list

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8 hours ago, RaptorM60 said:

@IMT you’ve just won today, thank you for understanding what we’re trying to do! ❤️

No problem at all, just trying to do my best to get rid of the confusion to make them aware how important this list is to give an indication how far you guys are. :)

7 hours ago, captainvette2112 said:

I get it...... but my only point when talking about the lack of Base Building and Vehicles was......  with the exception of #1. Prone 360 Aim, #2. Injury, and #3. Stamina, what is there in that list that is in anyway exciting or that will radically change/improve gameplay? 

Im not trying to be difficult or a dick... I just dont get the hype.  They demoed 0.63 7 months ago at Gamescom and since then THIS list of total filler fluff is the culmination of 5 years of Alpha marking the official Dayz Beta ???  With promises of updates to follow??  Its ridiculous.  And its not even the DEVs being ridiculous because frankly I dont expect anything from this game anymore.. its the community.  The internet blows up with Dayz Hype  cause of this update and THIS is it ????  Ladder climbing, disease, and swimming..... 

I mean I guess if you feed starving people a cracker they will freak out too. 

The 0.63 Experimental update is not about content, it's about getting the systems in place to build the content upon. You can basically compare it to building an house. They are busy on the outside of the house (roof, walls, foundation, etc.). After this they can start on the decorating (windows, furniture, doors, etc.).

Gradually we will see these systems getting completed and we'll start receiving the content like base building, vehicles and all of the other goodies.

Like @RaptorM60 already mentioned, there might not be a lot of new interesting content in the first build of 0.63 Experimental but the game will feel and play very differently. Although the setting will still be the same (Chernarus), your first reaction will probably be "What the hell, is DayZ?", trust me on this one. The sooner you understand the significance of this update and the underlying thought, the sooner your complete picture of DayZ will be clear.

I know it sucks that the game gets stale at some point currently. It's also the reason why I'm on a break from the game currently, but I'll definitely check out 0.63 the moment it gets out. We just need to have patience and trust and let the developers do their thing, even though that is hard or sounds hard. In the end, your patience will we rewarded with not only a great game but also a great platform to expand upon with modding.

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Even though it shows the picture that does not seem much "really new" in the first iteration of 0.63. Alone the Stamina (with weight system?!?) Will have a very big impact on the gameplay, in almost all situations. Annoying it may be that the "big fast favorite places" are not reached so quickly. But locally it will change a lot because you are limited in the fast run .... it will require new techniques and tactics.

And who knows, there will be different Official Hives ... maybe those for Coastal PvP with the Lootzones from the early days.

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I just don't get how people got confused by it at all, it was all loud and clear that postoned = later etc..
And its obvious that .63 exp wont have all of the features..

No surprise people says "DayZ Standalone is Dead" or "DayZ Standalone is shit" not understanding its still WIP if they cant even understand obvious text message.
 

Edited by exacomvm
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14 hours ago, IMT said:

You can basically compare it to building an house

Building DayZ is like eating an orange.  First, you have the skin...then the sweet, sweet innards...

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On 3/7/2018 at 4:55 PM, gorvi said:

I see no bananas in holsters in the checklist and am deeply concerned.

As am I gorvi, as am I.  We'll just have to wait for modding.

Edited by GaryWalnuts
speeling

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22 hours ago, IMT said:

 You can basically compare it to building an house.

 

Yes. Like this "house" down here. Never ready.

We are only getting new "checklist's, status reporst etc." to see how slow the development has become with Dayz.

sagrada-familia-4.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Seitan said:

Yes. Like this "house" down here. Never ready.

We are only getting new "checklist's, status reporst etc." to see how slow the development has become with Dayz.

sagrada-familia-4.jpg

 

 

See, there is a difference between people who can see the entire scope and the end result in their mind. I looked up the church online and it's called "Sagrada Família", located in Barcelona. Construction on this church started in 1882 and the church has a current official release date in 2026.

There will be people like you who will see this church which is still under construction and will say "it will never be finished". Then there are the ones who do see the end result and the entire scope in their mind. These people know that we have to be patient and wait to get the sweet, sweet innards as @gorvi mentioned. Only the true people interested in the church will have the patience and strength to wait it out and will eventually be able to walk inside the finished church. The same goes for DayZ, only the strong, patient and persistent people will walk in Chernarus of the end product. The mainstream people who say "wow, this is awesome!" will be long gone by then.

Edited by IMT
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Thank you. 
The list was a good idea, and probably should be reused for the following releases as well.

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21 hours ago, Tarek_lb said:

The next update of the checklist is Friday, March 9th?   @Baty Alquawen

 


No changes, we are going to update the page with this information later today.

21 hours ago, Tarek_lb said:

And, how can you explain that the collision camera is in '' IN PROGRESS '' while the development of the collision camera started on June 13, 2017?
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=NykucZZRvdM

 

After the collision algorithm gets stable which is a long process, it always needs to be supported by data. Now it’s in hand of our artists to rework geometry to the setup of the algorithm. With the amount of assets that DayZ uses (thousands), it takes months to prepare.

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44 minutes ago, Baty Alquawen said:

After the collision algorithm gets stable which is a long process, it always needs to be supported by data. Now it’s in hand of our artists to rework geometry to the setup of the algorithm. With the amount of assets that DayZ uses (thousands), it takes months to prepare.

Aren't the geometry models and everything supposed to have already built collision data just like in every other game ? 
Otherwise u would walk through buildings like a ghost or shoot invisible objects or through nothing, but seems like dayz has good collisions already.
So maybe you mean the programming of camera collisions is still in developement which actually looks decent already?  *good enough for first .63 exp*
 

Edited by exacomvm

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@exacomvm

The collision models of the assets are not the problem, because otherwise the camera would still be the same. You have to tell the CI (Camera Intelligence) how it has to work for the different assets. A wall / picket fence must be processed differently than a wall of a house. You have to "feed" the objects with offset values so that the CI can work with them. So if you come near a wall, the z-value will certainly limit itself to destroy benefits ... this must be done long before the collision points of the wall reach. You also have to do this with almost every single asset, and the difficulty will be to prioritize the "offset values". and at 1000 assets .... think once of the variety of combinations that arise. That's what takes time ...one half a hell full of time.

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9 hours ago, Sqeezorz said:

@exacomvm

The collision models of the assets are not the problem, because otherwise the camera would still be the same. You have to tell the CI (Camera Intelligence) how it has to work for the different assets. A wall / picket fence must be processed differently than a wall of a house. You have to "feed" the objects with offset values so that the CI can work with them. So if you come near a wall, the z-value will certainly limit itself to destroy benefits ... this must be done long before the collision points of the wall reach. You also have to do this with almost every single asset, and the difficulty will be to prioritize the "offset values". and at 1000 assets .... think once of the variety of combinations that arise. That's what takes time ...one half a hell full of time.

So that's basically like selecting which objects camera bumps into and which goes through ( for example transparent metal fence - ignore, bush etc, window w/ or w/o glass - zoom in e.g. 50% of normal 3rd person view distance) if that's like that i doubt it would be months of work, but that depends on how the "CI" is setup and if it acts based on the object type or if objects has no type then probs it would be basically just work of patience and good planning how it should be e.g. change/add object param -> compile model -> repeat thousand times, if the camera behavior was poorly planned -> repeat the process on some assets or add sub-types.
So like 50-100 models per day would be easy imo.

I suppose things like that usually takes like few days to make atleast for these cheap AAA games. 

Edited by exacomvm

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On 09/03/2018 at 9:39 AM, IMT said:

See, there is a difference between people who can see the entire scope and the end result in their mind. I looked up the church online and it's called "Sagrada Família", located in Barcelona. Construction on this church started in 1882 and the church has a current official release date in 2026.

There will be people like you who will see this church which is still under construction and will say "it will never be finished". Then there are the ones who do see the end result and the entire scope in their mind. These people know that we have to be patient and wait to get the sweet, sweet innards as @gorvi mentioned. Only the true people interested in the church will have the patience and strength to wait it out and will eventually be able to walk inside the finished church. The same goes for DayZ, only the strong, patient and persistent people will walk in Chernarus of the end product. The mainstream people who say "wow, this is awesome!" will be long gone by then.

First I have never heard of this church but I would like to visit it when it will be finished! Then It's so untrue to think people will not visit an amazing church because it took years to be finished. I even believe that would be the opposite, people will want to see the result of an almost "2 centuries to be build church". It's not like we have to wait in front of the church for this whole time. 

 

About the camera, I quote this part of the 16 january SR: 

Quote
  • 3rd person camera collisions

-improvements in camera collisions prediction

-we're happy with the implementation now, but there's more tweaking to be done during BETA

I also thought it was ready for expe. 

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16 hours ago, exacomvm said:

So like 50-100 models per day would be easy imo.

I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of work that goes into things in general.

100 models a day, on an 8-hour workday, would be less than 5 minutes from start to finish on average, not accounting for breaks and other distractions during the day. The assumption gets worse considering we have no idea of the actual workflow, including testing the changes.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man
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23 hours ago, Gadget_97 said:

About the camera, I quote this part of the 16 january SR: 

// 3rd person camera collisions

-improvements in camera collisions prediction

-we're happy with the implementation now, but there's more tweaking to be done during BETA //

I also thought it was ready for expe. 

The ready for exp. certainly refers to the function module (CI) of the camera.

An intelligent software that calculates everything by itself and works only with names or groups of assets is certainly not a good solution, because calculations take time, and time costs performance, and performance means "more or (badly) less FPS".

The advantage of intelligent software is just that it takes less work for the team because it always calculates instant during the game ... at the expense of performance.

The software, which "imports" the parameters directly from the data of the assets, saves a lot of time because it can process predefined data directly.

The disadvantage of this way is: the work has to be done by hand beforehand. What the engine gains in time takes time programming and debugging.

This means that a highly intelligent camera module is a cheap solution.

(I do not know if it really works like that, it's only "logical" thoughts of mine that do not have to agree with reality!)

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21 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of work that goes into things in general.

100 models a day, on an 8-hour workday, would be less than 5 minutes from start to finish on average, not accounting for breaks and other distractions during the day. The assumption gets worse considering we have no idea of the actual workflow, including testing the changes.

Well thats true, but take Source Engine for example, even with "fanmade" tools such as WallWorm you can do such things rapidly ( compiling takes longest time around 2-5mins per model on crappy PC but making these collisions etc is just seconds since it uses scripts etc which i bet DayZ devs has too for their engine, ofc some models/props can be more complex and may need manual adjustements ) so imagine what the actual developers use? It should be even faster for them.

Also dont underestimate the Source Engine, its games looks basic, but its freaking complex due to insane optimizations.

Also considering Bohemia made new engine/language, i suppose their workflows is drastically improved.

If they said that they need to remodel/retexture everything from scratch and make all these collisions together, then i would agree it can take months up to years ( considering there's alot of people there and not 1guy works on it ).

Well im not familiar with Studio environment and their workflow, but lets say you have to make 1000 world props ( houses, small things, fences, trees, rocks etc ) totally from scratch..
Based on my "apprentice" modelling skills they could make roughly 3 models per day for 1 guy ( ofc huge variantion due to variety of models and their complexion, could be 20 per day or 1 per day e.g. massive building with props inside such as current Jail of DayZ ).
So take 3 modelers, 3 lookdev artists ( texture painters ) and 1 "engine" guy who ports stuff from 3d package to game engine ( does the collision stuff etc ).

So we have roughly 9 models per working day, while modeler finished one model, the texture artists should keep up and be done before the modeler sends them another model to texture and the "engine guy" always keep up since he has the least work. So that's 9 complete models per day with working collisions etc.. and that would be 4-6months to complete the 1000 models which is pretty normal amount of time and i don't see where it takes "months" to do just the collisions ( unless they also reworking some of the models which was mentioned before ).




 

Edited by exacomvm

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On 2018-03-09 at 9:39 AM, IMT said:

See, there is a difference between people who can see the entire scope and the end result in their mind. I looked up the church online and it's called "Sagrada Família", located in Barcelona. Construction on this church started in 1882 and the church has a current official release date in 2026.

There will be people like you who will see this church which is still under construction and will say "it will never be finished". Then there are the ones who do see the end result and the entire scope in their mind. These people know that we have to be patient and wait to get the sweet, sweet innards as @gorvi mentioned. Only the true people interested in the church will have the patience and strength to wait it out and will eventually be able to walk inside the finished church. The same goes for DayZ, only the strong, patient and persistent people will walk in Chernarus of the end product. The mainstream people who say "wow, this is awesome!" will be long gone by then.

So you mean that DayZ will only be for ppl like you and me? Not for the masses, not present here but on facebook, tinder, snapchat etc? 

I hope DayZ one day will pull the masses

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4 hours ago, elander91 said:

So you mean that DayZ will only be for ppl like you and me? Not for the masses, not present here but on facebook, tinder, snapchat etc? 

I hope DayZ one day will pull the masses

I hope the same but what I do know is that Vanilla is not going to be for every player. That's where modding will come in. But before that, only the die-hards will stay.

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So far two out of four updates have been missed since this checklist was released.  I seriously appreciate everything you guys do to get this game out, but that doesn't look good.

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17 minutes ago, IReadTheAgreement said:

So far two out of four updates have been missed since this checklist was released.  I seriously appreciate everything you guys do to get this game out, but that doesn't look good.

Nothing has been "missed." The devs update the status of the list twice a week (even if nothing changes), and when something becomes ready for Exp, they'll share that on social media.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man

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1 hour ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

Nothing has been "missed." The devs update the status of the list twice a week (even if nothing changes), and when something becomes ready for Exp, they'll share that on social media.

So why was it last updated March 9th?  It's right on the checklist page.  That's two missed updates.  So yes, something was missed, twice.

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6 hours ago, IReadTheAgreement said:

So why was it last updated March 9th?  It's right on the checklist page.  That's two missed updates.  So yes, something was missed, twice.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed they kept logs of even no changes at the bottom of the page.

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