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Yuval

With BETA comes modding

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22 hours ago, Yuval said:

Oh boy I can't even tell if you're serious or not. Take notes of your own essays while you write them.

 

You having a bad day?  Its sure been, well, interesting talking to you.  I think you want the echochamber forum, which is over there. -->

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15 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

Was this game ever a "special" game once? - or is this my imagination?  just my light-blocking also rose-tinting wraparounds?  (dude, the mirrors are on the inside).
Was DayZ in any way "special" or was it another game like all the rest of them? And always has been?  And has something changed // or nothing changed?

If it was "extraordinary"  ? ..  then WHAT in your opinion was Unique about DayZ ?

I went back to edit that part of my post, you can let it go as well.

But I don't get where you're going with this, nobody but you is arguing about whether or not DayZ is unique or not. I just pointed out that you were wrong in saying that death was somehow truly permanent in the DayZ mod. It wasn't, because tents existed unlike how you remember.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man
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10 hours ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

I went back to edit that part of my post, you can let it go as well.

But I don't get where you're going with this, nobody but you is arguing about whether or not DayZ is unique or not. I just pointed out that you were wrong in saying that death was somehow truly permanent in the DayZ mod. It wasn't, because tents existed unlike how you remember.

Do you remember what year persistence was introduced in DayZ SA ? 
I was WONDERING what made DayZ  a "special and unique" game at one time  - ( that's why I put << NO RSVP please >> to end the comment) .
But if it's "another game like any other" with nothing to mark it out, 
- then that's fine and dandy too.

I know BI made and often stated their decision that DayZ SA would NOT incorporate DayZ Mod style or elements into the SA version.
So maybe one good mod for DayZ SA would be a DayZ Mod Mod.  

Either way, modders and players are two different  beasts, they hardly recognize or understand each other. They don't have the same objectives.  Do they?

xxp

 

whatever ..

https://youtu.be/5W46zq5-qnE

Edited by pilgrim*
~

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On 9/11/2017 at 0:23 PM, klesh said:

I agree.  Somehow people are on about that I am not a fan of modding in general or thinks it ruins all games.  I've said modding is great, in certain applications.  I'm nearing 15 hundred hours of Kerbal Space Program and a large part of that has to do with mods.  Fallout 4 is modded to a T as well.  Mods are great, in a single player situation where only your imagination limits what can be changed and its always for the better.

To me, a multiplayer game shouldn't have mods, especially those that are optional (like changing crosshairs or something in the World of XYZ games).  Now, DayZ mods will be server wide, so everyone on that server will share the same experience.  But it would be healthier for the community as a whole to be sticking to one rules set, where anyone can play on any server because they're all the same.

 

WHoa hold on a sec, you are forgetting the other private hosted hives that some have 4+ connected they are no where near public vanilla servers.

We do not know the engine, what we can enable or disable.

How exactly mods will be allowed or not in Vanilla.

You can filter out modded servers so only the true vanilla experience works.

We also do not know if public jumping of hives will be allowed once the beta comes around?? right remember?

So much we do not know, yet we see arma 3 vanilla just was boring as heck, until modding made it a huge success. Not everyone's game or value either but modding was superb.

 

Unless someone can really give us all of those answers i would put your fears away in your back pocket and wait until we know more.

 

Also remember this, each patch can change with little to no notice. Also all status reports have been proven to be taken with a grain of salt until we see the new engine in place. Also the time line will not be correct or what can or be added to the game due to the new engine and it's subordinate engines. Digging too deep into it at this point might hurt feelings and discourage you and others from playing.

 

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14 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

Do you remember what year persistence was introduced in DayZ SA ? 
I was WONDERING what made DayZ  a "special and unique" game at one time  - ( that's why I put << NO RSVP please >> to end the comment) .
But if it's "another game like any other" with nothing to mark it out, 
- then that's fine and dandy too.

I know BI made and often stated their decision that DayZ SA would NOT incorporate DayZ Mod style or elements into the SA version.
So maybe one good mod for DayZ SA would be a DayZ Mod Mod.  

Either way, modders and players are two different  beasts, they hardly recognize or understand each other. They don't have the same objectives.  Do they?

xxp

 

whatever ..

https://youtu.be/5W46zq5-qnE

I am a modder/scripter and player i recognize and understand. They already told you modding will not effect vanilla servers. You just cant force people to pick the same server your on.

We have already played the game for 3000 hrs, what more is there ??? more sheds? the experience comes from the people, and if people want to enhance it Great!! other wise dayz is pretty stale without a community.

 

BI whole fundamental change has been modding. Seriously ask them about Arma.

 

OK Dayz SA vanilla no mods. Means i enable or disable mods for this server. If it is a private server, you have the choice to download my compiled list of mods active on this server.

If only 75 people enjoy Dayz SA vanilla we are balanced between 2 servers only... Like 1st person servers.

What exactly is the rest of the 99999 players going to experience? Wait until your fed up with Vanilla server for the remainder 5 yrs? NO we will open a private server mod up what people enjoy, hop to other modded servers and experience something completely unique and different. BI understands this and made the effort to bring it to Dayz because Dayz was a mod concept.

 

So Pilgrim get off the road to Pilgrimage here and look at both sides of this stone. <---- was suppose to be a bad joke lol

 

 

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1 minute ago, sneakydude said:

 ..//..
look at both sides of this stone
..//..

I got no problem with mods, what folk do with their time, if they are killers messiahs, survivors, casual or serious hardcore, code gurus, or playing any game at all for tech flash kudos or 100% laffs.. really NOT problem. ... also I have no "but" to add on to the end of that statement .. that's it.

I could start in to a whole analysis of where DayZ SA "the official" is going, and IMO why.. (.. blah blah.. talking about planning and objectives and also about players and player expectations..) .. er.. like for instance (just one instance), hey look at that STRANGE wide wolf-free corridor that goes from the SE of the map (Electro) ALL the way up diagonally to NWA .. did that turn up there by chance? I could bore you with 50 examples of what I THINK BI are trying to do and what their loot economy MUST be about.. 

And on Steam now I notice many players who have "only" 50 of 200 hours of DZ .. not 1000+ . so stuff is moving, players are moving AND changing, there is a complex meaning <=COMPLEX=>  balancing taking place in the gameplay, <which is why BI took control of the "official" servers and payed out of their own pocket for that.>. economy, scarcity, spawn locations, ammo, animals, crafting..; as Klesh (just about) suggests, getting that Equilibrium and balancing the game for a whole RANGE OF PLAYERS might bring the early BUZZ that came with DayZ,

- because there was a hell of a BUZZ going on if you were a survivor, a sniper, killer, or a PVP & organized warfare freak. It was good for everyone. Then the hackers totally "changed" that equilibrium as much as the mods.. (zero blame or comparison, the 'player-base' did what they wanted, some wanted to mod, some to map hack, some to survive, some to kill..)  .. and then followed plenty of arguments and plans and disagreements about direction, next step, prevention  etc.. and a lot of complaining.
(maybe that's the forum style too ?)

BUT That WAS an Exciting game THERE for a while - then began a new phase with MANY elements changing it, still cool but (for X reasons) 'messy' - from DayZ Mod in it's last year through the first couple of years of DayZ SA ..

And now I come back here after one more year it's different again. There are some old timers around, but also new and DIFFERENT players, Different Attitude Folk.

Most importantly the BI progress reports don't & CANT report on the overall SHAPE of the game. they must report on tech priorities.  

But EXACTLY the most important is the SHAPE and the BUZZ, we all know that.

For sure, if there was another game anywhere today that gave me the KICK  of the early DayZ  -> DayZ SA  - I'd be THERE NOW,  Not Here, and I don't give a rat's f@rt if it's from a one-person 15 year-old modder or of Sony Entertainment spent 1.5 billion wages on it .. THAT don't make

....  the difference   ...   

I ain't disagreeing with anybody, 'far as I can tell..  I'm just a guy in the street / in the woods /  passing through..

xx pilgrim

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On 9/13/2017 at 10:38 PM, pilgrim* said:

xx pilgrim

I don't know if it's just me but the way you write your essays are plain unreadable for me. Too many randomly UPPER-typed words, slashes, dots and weird symbols. Keep it civil if you want people to keep up.

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7 minutes ago, Yuval said:

I don't know if it's just me but the way you write your essays are plain unreadable for me. Too many randomly UPPER-typed words, slashes, dots and weird symbols. Keep it civil if you want people to keep up.

This is why i feel i maybe misunderstanding some posters. Sometimes it is rather hard to follow. I do apologize if i have done so.

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4 minutes ago, sneakydude said:

This is why i feel i maybe misunderstanding some posters. Sometimes it is rather hard to follow. I do apologize if i have done so.

Yeah, but anyway I understand it isn't possible to come up with the word "modding" around here without people immediately going into "defend vanilla game" although no one had ever said anything against it. So from my point of view this forum has nothing to do with modding and the BI community but rather has its userbase tightly coupled with the vanilla DayZ experience. Too bad to hear and I hope this will change in the future. Innovation is not welcomed here.

Edited by Yuval

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Just now, Yuval said:

Yeah, but anyway I understand it isn't possible to come up with the word "modding" around here without people immediately going into "defend vanilla game" although no one had ever said anything against it. So from my point of interest this forum has nothing to do with modding and the BI community but rather has its people tightly coupled with the vanilla DayZ experience. Too bad to hear and I hope this will change in the future.

Exactly, I agree with you. I was hoping that some information may be generated by this topic not the defense of vanilla. Vanilla will not change, only the players demand changes. "The default package" If BI changes it like Arma 3 updates did, it gets rather confusing for the modding community. We lost so many good modders trying to make a better experience. Arma 3 was a very fun tool to make new and improved ideas. It just was not strong enough to handle what was needed.

So would dayz SA allow us to mod good AI ideas? we are yet to see. Will i need 4-5 headless clients to redirect some of the load, so that i can add in more AI features? More fishing, more hunting? Maybe add in snakes, or simply more crafting ideas.

Lets say i add in a questing mod, that allows people to run missions from a safe zone. Anything goes.

I would love for someone to show us more on the modding side of things, honestly.

Vanilla is safe until the devs change it.

"We", the players make the game come alive.... modding does help, its been proven. Once that Vanilla experience gets boring, we want to try something different.

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2 hours ago, Yuval said:

I don't know if it's just me but the way you write your essays are plain unreadable for me. Too many randomly UPPER-typed words, slashes, dots and weird symbols. Keep it civil if you want people to keep up.

it is all "civil" .. sorry if i use words you don't understand. 

A lot of people who "talk about mods"  haven't the first idea how to write software. Not the tiniest idea. But that's just their life, ain't it? .. not mine. 
And plenty of software engineers and coders can't express themselves in words as well as they can write code. that's just life, right?

 

I start with :

<< I got no problem with mods .. >>

I end with :

<< I ain't disagreeing with anybody, 'far as I can tell..  I'm just a guy in the street / in the woods /  passing through.. >>

 

So what is difficult to understand about that ? 

* * *

p.s. A modder changes the vanilla - BI changes the vanilla - but BI coders aren't called modders because they do it for a living.. 
<lol?>

 

 

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Way I see it we been playing the same map for years, if modding only allowed the generation of new maps I'd be happy! give me vanilla DayZ on a new map anyday! I like the feeling of being lost, the unknown.. Chernarus at first was scary! it was immense, now even more so, but honestly I'm burned out by it, if you spawn and you know where you are and where to head where's the sense of survival and orientation? I suspect many other players feel it too.

Taviana, WOW loved it! Lingor Island.. so different, so welcome! Namalsk, gave us a not just a new landscape, new harsh conditions! Thinking about it I even enjoyed the small but very cool Utes even if it was mainly PvP, if that floated your boat it had you well covered. 

 

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52 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

it is all "civil" .. sorry if i use words you don't understand. 

A lot of people who "talk about mods"  haven't the first idea how to write software. Not the tiniest idea. But that's just their life, ain't it? .. not mine. 
And plenty of software engineers and coders can't express themselves in words as well as they can write code. that's just life, right?

 

I start with :

<< I got no problem with mods .. >>

I end with :

<< I ain't disagreeing with anybody, 'far as I can tell..  I'm just a guy in the street / in the woods /  passing through.. >>

 

So what is difficult to understand about that ? 

* * *

p.s. A modder changes the vanilla - BI changes the vanilla - but BI coders aren't called modders because they do it for a living.. 
<lol?>

 

 

I am a software engineer in the medical field, soon enlisting to the army as a cyber-specialist. I have been modding and programming for the past 7 years. Yet all the weird stuff you put in your messages are unreadable. Not only your comment is a failure of an insult (regarding skills of writing code and expressing thought) but also you act like a child which for me is embarrassing to watch.

Edited by Yuval

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13 hours ago, Yuval said:

 ..//.. skills of writing code and expressing thought ..//..

 

my main work for 20 years has been explaining programmers to human beings
& vice versa

Excuse me if I'm slack and free-form when I'm off duty: this is the way I email friends.  Sometimes I even throw away the spelling, ya know?
I won't mention again the overall game-play shaping and the disparate player-style unifying elements in the game BI must absolutely be working on right now.

Let's get back on track :

 

<< I haven't touched the standalone since patch 0.55. ..//.. It is borderline boring and not fun for me. DayZ SA's vision is not something I ever liked.>>

You don't know how long is it until BETA hits and it doesn't really matter to you.  What you do wish to know is as much information as the devs can share about it.

 

 

 

Edited by pilgrim*
~ it is Yuval's thread

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15 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Let's get back on track 

Well you weren't on any track to begin with, you've turned this topic into an argument with your troll-like comments of "Well I don't want mods !" so sadly you've ruined any kind of civilized discussion about modding. I hope you're happy with yourself, kiddo.

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Stop, and back to roots.

Let us not down to Steam Level please.

//With BETA comes modding//

 

it's about the question of modding. (no, I'm not a modder or programmer, hopefully does not matter). what we know is the modding comes but we do not know what or how much.

So I ask once the question: "what should come with 0.63 to Mod / Tools to us?"

// I ask this question because some things take a lot of time. (map-mods .. much time in creation and detail, scripts a lot of time with the new language and the tools, new items / animations is certainly also a not so simple thing ... I mean "something" takes time ... "something good" takes a lot of time.

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I really hope that the mods have to go through the steam workshop.  The moment the developers let modding reign free over DayZ, the true core of DayZ will vanish without a trace.

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5 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

I really hope that the mods have to go through the steam workshop.  The moment the developers let modding reign free over DayZ, the true core of DayZ will vanish without a trace.

I am sure this is 99% going to happen for modding. I believe the devs stated mods (addons) will be through steam workshop.

However i'm wondering if people are getting confused with client side and server side modding. If you guys are worried about server owners doing x1000 loot, death match pvp balota and spawn with guns (server side) then there probably isn't a way to prevent that unless the devs come out and state servers like that are disallowed. We'll have to see.

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The devs have said they're going to fully support Steam Workshop.

https://dayz.com/blog/status-report-3-mar-15

Quote

The road to supporting a proper ecosystem on Steam Workshop will take time – but our goal is to have a strong set of tools, documentation, and examples by the time DayZ hits 1.0 and leaves Early Access.

https://dayz.com/blog/status-report-08-apr-15

Quote

And the beauty of it all? If this is not the experience you're exactly looking to have with DayZ - then another core pillar of DayZ's design will bring you exactly what you seek. Our full support for modding via the Steam Workshop.

There have been a couple other mentions about the Steam Workshop, but those are most notable and relevant.

Edited by Dancing.Russian.Man

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9 hours ago, DannyDog said:

I am sure this is 99% going to happen for modding. I believe the devs stated mods (addons) will be through steam workshop.

However i'm wondering if people are getting confused with client side and server side modding. If you guys are worried about server owners doing x1000 loot, death match pvp balota and spawn with guns (server side) then there probably isn't a way to prevent that unless the devs come out and state servers like that are disallowed. We'll have to see.

I can very well imagine that there are some "hardcoded" restrictions on the server side. Say you can set 1000 vehicles in the CLE, but the server takes only a certain maximum value.

In words: you define 1000 V3S .. the server limits this to its internal max. Value of ~ 20 (as an example).

Sure, this is something that creates certain limitations, but I am convinced that these also serve more of the balance to maintain the server performance in a good framework.

I think this is only not released at the beginning ... somehow these fetters are solved to give the modders full access, which will be important with new content. (then the modders but also have the responsibility about the server performance).

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You guys are forgetting that public maybe canned....I haven't heard of any more reports or updates to that last poll.

I hope public hoping goes poof.... let the server handle the Database.

This is my thoughts on it, this way modding or vanilla stays left to the user. Also allows for you to lock down your server from aggressive cheaters etc...

As for modding, i hope we have as many tools as Arma 3 did, maybe not all of them but a good chunk available, with future changes.

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Old post.... i know.

Recently someone announced (no longer knows who and where hmm Dancing.Russian.Man? ... oh my brain) the DayZ EnScript is the same or similar to the script language of "Take on Mars". If the script is the same (or almost the same), then the structure of the systems is certainly synonymous with NewDayZ. That would mean that the tools could also have certain "similarities". So for interested "modders" it may be a good idea to take a look at these things at "ToM". (Just an idea, because maybe Arma3 is the wrong platform to get your bearings .... I can be wrong ... I am a 100% layman in the field).

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In the Dayz spotlight interview with Sumrak (the creator of Namlisk) he recommended getting to know arma 3 modding tools in preparation for Dayz modding. I've reinstalled arma and am going to have a poke about :) . But yeah, if you own take on mars its probably worth a look.

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That would mean that the "graphic part" (and possibly also audio) is based exclusively on Arma3, while the part about scripts comes more from ToM. This would make sense of the naming: Enfusion .... 2 good engine-parts merged.

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