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Mantasisg

Why it is harder and harder to have interactions ?

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 PVE is a must, but fortunately there will always be bandits, so there will be a point to be hero. I say that higher player density is very necessary, because when there are only 2-3 people in large town (if that even happen) then bandit should probably be more scared of zombies (who does not that bad reacting to shots now) than other players fighting him down. Two capable bandits probably could control town endlessly till they'll run out of ammo, also it must be boring for them too not to receive any serious opposition. 

I'd really welcome more rough and detailed PVE element, being attacked by bear will be really scary, wolves are quite scary too (a bit soft now, or I was lucky all those times) and so on... Even Wolves haven't caused much trouble for me till now, it certainly has added a lot for gameplay.

Things I don't want in DayZ - players to be hiding all the time, avoiding each other, too scared to die, not engaging. It is quite confusing situation, because trying to survive as much as possible does exactly that. The trick will be made when in DayZ there will be a balance between a point and value of surviving a long time (look at player value thread), and players interactions. And both contradicts each other, if you want to survive it is dumb to go where are, or might be people, you can play in empty servers, log off... (SO FUN), if you want interactions, then you are in risk. 

KOS will always be, even with most dangerous PVE. 

KOS will always be the more annoying the longer you'll survive. Thats why spawning intervals (spawn lifetime) shouldn't be extremely long, you'll get KOS'ed once anyway. Of course it is better to end the run in a good battle for survival against PVE or PVP.

Players will always be tend to KOS more as they'll get better gear.

Some people sometimes are playing as a bandits - and KOS is what they actually do, naturally. But there is no difference in killing bandit or hero, or neutral, there is no reward for that, being bandit is nothing but a thing of players fantasy. Bandits should naturally feel enhanced pressure, killing somebody who has not been threatening should have a lasting meaning, while heroes should feel support of other heroes and neutrals. But it is not in DayZ and probably will never be. Because now you'll have to see someone in crime in order to know, and even then you will not know who was bandit, and who was defending or acting hero. By the end of the day everybody is a hero, and a bandit, and a neutral too with the same character...

I think there would be plenty of interactions in DayZ if there was some meaning for bandit, hero, or just survivor. And something cementing everybody together, rather than just looting around the map.

I guess it will come towards the betta. And if it will not, then I hope DayZ at least will work fine and have a lot of people in servers. And fine mobility, to save valuable time for players. 

Agree ?

 

Edited by Mantasisg

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I don't think KOS is the problem at all...Look at the top 10 online games as far as player count goes, and the one thing they ALL have in common is great PvP. Dota 2 (700-900k players), CS GO (600-700k players), H1Z1 (70-140k players), Player unkown's battleground, Rust etc. They are all PVP based and all are KOS. If KOS was such a problem, then why do those games have literally hundreds of times more players than DayZ? The easy answer to why interaction between players is getting harder is because THERE ARE LESS PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH. It isn't some lack of deeper meaning for bandit/hero or some psychiatric reason that people aren't interacting, it's because there are simply less people to interact with than ever before in DayZ's history. The peak players in April 2017 for DayZ was 7.5k players and it averaged 3.5k players....

If you want to know why the player count is at an all time low, that is a different question entirely. In my opinion, it is the perception and reputation of DayZ that it is hurting it the most. Also, once you figure out how to survive (apples, fires, and rags is all you need to survive indefinitely in all weather conditions) the game is very dry. What is the point of spending the time to fish or hunt, then cook, to eat something that gives you less energy than an apple? The PVE aspect of DayZ is not very good at all imo and very easy to figure out. We NEED PVP in order to have a community that is even willing to PVE long term with the way the game currently is. With no interaction, no risk, and the only reward is to continue a lonely life, how long do you think people will continue to play?

Edited by JBURNS489

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dayz standalone  is not the same as the games you named i think it was meant to be different than any game before it and some that have came along after it.

The numbers don't tell the whole story a lot of players who like kos left to play those games you talked about.

Dayz standalone isn't done yet some left because they don't understand why it's taking longer to finish the game. 

Edited by green_mtn_grandbob
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2 hours ago, JBURNS489 said:

I don't think KOS is the problem at all...Look at the top 10 online games as far as player count goes, and the one thing they ALL have in common is great PvP. Dota 2 (700-900k players), CS GO (600-700k players), H1Z1 (70-140k players), Player unkown's battleground, Rust etc. They are all PVP based and all are KOS. If KOS was such a problem, then why do those games have literally hundreds of times more players than DayZ? The easy answer to why interaction between players is getting harder is because THERE ARE LESS PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH. It isn't some lack of deeper meaning for bandit/hero or some psychiatric reason that people aren't interacting, it's because there are simply less people to interact with than ever before in DayZ's history. The peak players in April 2017 for DayZ was 7.5k players and it averaged 3.5k players....

If you want to know why the player count is at an all time low, that is a different question entirely. In my opinion, it is the perception and reputation of DayZ that it is hurting it the most. Also, once you figure out how to survive (apples, fires, and rags is all you need to survive indefinitely in all weather conditions) the game is very dry. What is the point of spending the time to fish or hunt, then cook, to eat something that gives you less energy than an apple? The PVE aspect of DayZ is not very good at all imo and very easy to figure out. We NEED PVP in order to have a community that is even willing to PVE long term with the way the game currently is. With no interaction, no risk, and the only reward is to continue a lonely life, how long do you think people will continue to play?

So it sounds like the obvious answer to "why is it harder to have interactions" is that there are less people actually playing to interact with!

My personal take is that there are two main reasons player interaction is becoming more rare.  Bigger map and lack of zombies.

By bigger map, I mean that even though the total area is about the same as the mod, all the new locations and buildings create more places to go and more space to not see another player.  You can hide 50 people in Electro without them ever running across each other.  Back in the day you had like 5 buildings in the largest cities that you could enter.  There was always a bottleneck at Balota airport, the fire stations and the hospital where players would run into each other. 

And of course having lots of zombies gives players something to shoot other than each other.  And they provide a bit of a warning when players are around so they don't just surprise each other and shoot each other in the face.

 

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On 4/29/2017 at 1:28 AM, scriptfactory said:

Uhh... I am almost 100% sure DayZ Mod had karma in it. It would change your skin based on your humanity value.

You're not wrong. I got a lot of time in the mod and Karma was in it as of August 2012.

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12 hours ago, JBURNS489 said:

I don't think KOS is the problem at all...Look at the top 10 online games as far as player count goes, and the one thing they ALL have in common is great PvP. Dota 2 (700-900k players), CS GO (600-700k players), H1Z1 (70-140k players), Player unkown's battleground, Rust etc. They are all PVP based and all are KOS. If KOS was such a problem, then why do those games have literally hundreds of times more players than DayZ

Easy, beause these games are designed for PvP ... no running around for half an hour to finally spot someone, go in, shoot, have fun. As a mere PvP shooter, DayZ indeed is far from a good product ... this is why I consider the neglect of survival aspects a huge problem for DayZ. It is not gun number 329 the game desperately needs .... 

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7 hours ago, Noctoras said:

Easy, beause these games are designed for PvP ... no running around for half an hour to finally spot someone, go in, shoot, have fun. As a mere PvP shooter, DayZ indeed is far from a good product ... this is why I consider the neglect of survival aspects a huge problem for DayZ. It is not gun number 329 the game desperately needs .... 

I agree that DayZ doesn't need more guns, and I concede the point about the most played games online are a different type of game than DayZ. The op asked why it seems more difficult to have interaction among players, and there were almost books written about how KOS is killing the game. My whole point is its harder to interact with people because there are less people to interact with. KOS is not the problem (as evidence the much higher pop pvp/kos games). There isn't just one reason why the player count is dropping on DayZ either, but to say it's only because of pvpers/bandits killing on sight is ridiculous to me. Pvp adds risk and tension, and if anything keeps the game alive and gives people something to do. If anything, pvp is the reason people still play DayZ, and not the cause of it's player drops. B Hicks himself said other players are always going to be the only true threat to players. Not infected and not the environment, other players (Pvp). People definitely arent staying to play so they can pick more apples. If we are trying to discuss why players are leaving, thats a whole other topic though

Edited by JBURNS489
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22 hours ago, JBURNS489 said:

I don't think KOS is the problem at all...Look at the top 10 online games as far as player count goes, and the one thing they ALL have in common is great PvP. Dota 2 (700-900k players), CS GO (600-700k players), H1Z1 (70-140k players), Player unkown's battleground, Rust etc. They are all PVP based and all are KOS. If KOS was such a problem, then why do those games have literally hundreds of times more players than DayZ? The easy answer to why interaction between players is getting harder is because THERE ARE LESS PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH. It isn't some lack of deeper meaning for bandit/hero or some psychiatric reason that people aren't interacting, it's because there are simply less people to interact with than ever before in DayZ's history.

19 hours ago, bfisher said:

By bigger map, I mean that even though the total area is about the same as the mod, all the new locations and buildings create more places to go and more space to not see another player.  You can hide 50 people in Electro without them ever running across each other.  Back in the day you had like 5 buildings in the largest cities that you could enter.  There was always a bottleneck at Balota airport, the fire stations and the hospital where players would run into each other. 

 

@JBURNS489 Yep PVP is definitely not less important for PVE, for me too. I'd agree that KOS is not a problem, but it has become because of dropped chances of running into each other, but the need to use the gun and have a fight is not gone. The argument that there are less people to interact is not completely true, because there are some full servers anyway. I think we have came to the true problem - probability of player encounters. It is really obvious. I think if you meet a lot of people then you are less likely to kill first one by KOS, because you know that you'll have more opportunities for gunfight (though KOS is not a gunfight, but some are happy even with such achievements), also if you start slaying people in more populated area it is much more likely to get a feedback and judgment from others, resulting in thinking twice before you KOS, or being defeated more likely by someone. Also if you hear shots in town you know that there might be dangerous, that someone got KOS'ed, and if encounters are too rare, then it is you who gets KOS'ed first one. There is quite some psychology in it IMO 

@bfisher Exactly, player count was not increasing as places to go were increasing, resulting in much more spread and hiding. I remember some places almost never lacking players....... I don't remember when was the last time I've heard "Friendly ?" lol

Yeah, player count, and more importantly probability of having encounters has a lot to do with KOS. I remember times when there used to be a bandit in town, and it actually would unite a lot of players, because shared fear unites quite a bit.  

 

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1 hour ago, EdStaffordZombie said:

I think that we need 100 players servers asap

150 or even 200.... If it can not be achieved, smaller map would do, I hope to get that from mods. Or perhaps an official smaller map.

Right now density is 0.6 player per one square kilometer if I did maths alright. Thats quite low IMO, and gameplay shows it. 

Lets consider that you are really lucky and you got into a place where are 10 players in 5 square kilometers, what it means for players who are elsewhere ? It means that in the rest of the map density has dropped from 0.6 to 0.53. Ok, there are two spots where players density is 2players/1square kilometer, now at the rest of the map density has dropped from  0.53 to 0.44. 

This inequality of densities could be brilliant, but the problem is that there is no way to know where the hell the most of players are concentrated. It used to be few spots on the map, we got more spots, and increase of player count from 50 to 60. Maybe it is more fun for those who would spend all time in inlands, but I doubt that change for them is very noticeable, as inlands is much larger area than coast. I see inlands being really meaningful when vehicles will be actually a thing to use.

Whats the optimal player density ? I guess it doesn't exist, because sometimes after heavy battle you want to spend some time alone, heal. But you don't want to get too lonely, I guess. 
 

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Omg... pleace no make a Japan Tokio style Town with us lovely Chernarus.

DD_gross.jpg

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6 hours ago, JBURNS489 said:

B Hicks himself said other players are always going to be the only true threat to players. Not infected and not the environment, other players (Pvp). 

Then the whole survival exercise is pointless. It's like publishing a book and declaring the first 45 out of 50 pages pointless. Nonetheless the title of the book refers to the pointless pages 1-30. Sounds weird, doesn't it`? 

In this case, Hicks would state: "Guys, this is a survival game, but survival is not the challenge". If I ONLY want PvP to be the single challenge, I play Battlefield, not DayZ, since in the time I meet 1 DayZ player I meet hundreds of players in BF. In addition to that not only snipers from some hill, but also planes, tanks, mortars ... in short: More challenges, more options.

As just another PvP shooter, DayZ would be a sorry example. DayZ is the mixture of survival, interaction and PvP. 

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3 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

150 or even 200.... If it can not be achieved, smaller map would do, I hope to get that from mods. Or perhaps an official smaller map.

Right now density is 0.6 player per one square kilometer if I did maths alright. Thats quite low IMO, and gameplay shows it. 

Lets consider that you are really lucky and you got into a place where are 10 players in 5 square kilometers, what it means for players who are elsewhere ? It means that in the rest of the map density has dropped from 0.6 to 0.53. Ok, there are two spots where players density is 2players/1square kilometer, now at the rest of the map density has dropped from  0.53 to 0.44. 

This inequality of densities could be brilliant, but the problem is that there is no way to know where the hell the most of players are concentrated. It used to be few spots on the map, we got more spots, and increase of player count from 50 to 60. Maybe it is more fun for those who would spend all time in inlands, but I doubt that change for them is very noticeable, as inlands is much larger area than coast. I see inlands being really meaningful when vehicles will be actually a thing to use.

Whats the optimal player density ? I guess it doesn't exist, because sometimes after heavy battle you want to spend some time alone, heal. But you don't want to get too lonely, I guess. 
 

If you cut off the areas of the map that are only water, you end up with roughly 13 by 13 km, which averages out to 0.35 players per km2, or nearly 2.8 km2 for each player on a full server. 

At this rate, one should feel extremely lucky to spot more than one player in a three hour session; especially outside of high traffic areas.

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38 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

Then the whole survival exercise is pointless. It's like publishing a book and declaring the first 45 out of 50 pages pointless. Nonetheless the title of the book refers to the pointless pages 1-30. Sounds weird, doesn't it`? 

In this case, Hicks would state: "Guys, this is a survival game, but survival is not the challenge". If I ONLY want PvP to be the single challenge, I play Battlefield, not DayZ, since in the time I meet 1 DayZ player I meet hundreds of players in BF. In addition to that not only snipers from some hill, but also planes, tanks, mortars ... in short: More challenges, more options.

As just another PvP shooter, DayZ would be a sorry example. DayZ is the mixture of survival, interaction and PvP. 

Yeah i hear ya and can agree. That is what Hicks stated though almost verbatim. "Players are and always will be the primary threat." -Hicks I WISH DayZ had more challenging survival. The way it is currently though, pvp is the only thing that is challenging or a risk of dieing for me, and a lot of others as well. I also agree though that DayZ is poor at pvp also for many reasons: bullets not registering hits, lag and desync issues causing you to shoot at a playet who isnt really there, hackers and glitchers coming out of the walls and thr ground, etc. If DayZ has poor PVE and poor PVP, then I think we are scratching the surface of the real issue. The game needs to get more complete. I am being patient, watching forums for updates daily. You cant honestly argue that the PVE is good in DayZ either....99% of the time I die it's due to a glitch or hacker. I cant even remember the last time anything else killed me

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19 hours ago, Sqeezorz said:

Omg... pleace no make a Japan Tokio style Town with us lovely Chernarus.

I'm sure you'll find less populated areas in huge Chernarus map. Especially if there will be some places where population will be significantly larger.

 

 

16 hours ago, Noctoras said:

 

As just another PvP shooter, DayZ would be a sorry example. DayZ is the mixture of survival, interaction and PvP. 

 

Who said "just" ? But PVP element must be heavy, especially at certain parts of the map. It would help to have more PVE and more PVP oriented areas. For example like prison island, who would have gone there not for pvp ?

 

 

16 hours ago, emuthreat said:

If you cut off the areas of the map that are only water, you end up with roughly 13 by 13 km, which averages out to 0.35 players per km2, or nearly 2.8 km2 for each player on a full server. 

At this rate, one should feel extremely lucky to spot more than one player in a three hour session; especially outside of high traffic areas.

I thought that DayZ map is 10x10, 13x13 is so much more ! I'll be looking for Devs making really good use of it, as now IMO size of map is working against the game. Surely higher player count, more accessible and more vehicles, more PVE, less "what to do now?" and it will be fine. Really looking for future updates.

However if this will turn out to be "lonelyness running simulator" it will be sad. 

 

Edited by Mantasisg

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On 4/30/2017 at 11:53 AM, Sqeezorz said:

In a nutshell: the behavior of the players will only change if the gameplay changes.

If the changes are incomming then: Some or many players will "scream with joy" and others will "scream with rage". I think there is only because I will die 2-3x just because I absolutely want to have an M4 / AK, because I have with the Sporter the feeling a "nothing to be". Only when the anger of the Apocalypse drives us into madness, Then we will also close together and see players as their own chance to move something in Chernarus.

If we die because of hunger because only one apple is on the tree, or 2 infected us the access to the house where the can of beans lies, because we have no clean rags or alcohol, no safe meele weapon .... small things the now Never been a problem, become a challenge.

Only then will something change. And this will be at the earliest with beta no matter what we are discussing.

Until there is "interaction" (no matter in which form and course) takes place only on some servers (private) ... on public it needs what is written above.

PS:  A confusion actually, there are currently few players playing the DayZ, and the less there is, "Team-mates and buddies" are searched in all forums, because their own mates do not play the game anymore. Ingame will be anything and everyone "instant-killed" .... for fear or frustration or boredom .... any one or one of your victims could be your new buddy. A spiral in the zero point.

Edit: sry for baad translations

Yes, player behavior will change with new game content and the total amount of players on a server. And when we get used to see other players due to higher traffic let`s say 100/100 servers, and it become less tempting to fire a bullet, because now u barely see anyone with 60/60 servers (so to get some action you often use the weapon due to very limit to no interaction with other players.) If you see a group of (2-3) players it start to get risky as well on 100/100 servers, but it all depends where u are on the map. My brief point more interaction never hurt this game and when we get used to see other players you will not use the weapon all the time which is logic reasoning and it might be strategic reasons as well. And those who enjoy less crowded servers - you will always find low population servers in dayz SA.

I was looting up the airport and it was empty with players when 0.61 just came out when they tested and the servers were always full on experimental branch - they tested 75/75 for a brief of time and I looted up NW Airfield it was completely empty with players. but due to performance issue they lower it down to 60/60. So sometimes u need patience to spot other players, and the NW Airfield get more crowded with higher populated servers, but I usually enjoy a good challenge. It`s fun to shadow another player or see what he/she is up to even though it can be risky, because when it sometimes take too long time to hear or see anyone it get boring as well, but that`s my view and experience though with the current server setting 60/60. 

Another point even with 100/100 server you will not get instant PvP action like Battlegrounds or BF1, this map is huge and it`s hard to spot others, and it will get even harder due to dense forest when they are going to implement it in beta version of Dayz SA. So you always get a mixture of survivial, exploring, and interaction - so I am looking forward to new content of this game and excited for news and updates about the game! )) 

Edited by Nebulae3
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On 5/2/2017 at 5:41 PM, JBURNS489 said:

Yeah i hear ya and can agree. That is what Hicks stated though almost verbatim. "Players are and always will be the primary threat." -Hicks I WISH DayZ had more challenging survival. The way it is currently though, pvp is the only thing that is challenging or a risk of dieing for me, and a lot of others as well. I also agree though that DayZ is poor at pvp also for many reasons: bullets not registering hits, lag and desync issues causing you to shoot at a playet who isnt really there, hackers and glitchers coming out of the walls and thr ground, etc. If DayZ has poor PVE and poor PVP, then I think we are scratching the surface of the real issue. The game needs to get more complete. I am being patient, watching forums for updates daily. You cant honestly argue that the PVE is good in DayZ either....99% of the time I die it's due to a glitch or hacker. I cant even remember the last time anything else killed me

Lets try this approach,

 

Server 1 population is PVE, RP, survival, and a whitelisted server?

Server 2 population is PVE + PVP, survival, and whitelisted server?

- Does it matter what hicks said? if you want pvp interactions or the random chance some one will kos isn't the threat much better for some players?

We can not dictate how players play, or what they want to accomplish. There will always be a true feel of danger with other players in the area.

Then PVP gets boring, so we approach it with modding. I honestly don't think many of you have played arma3 and what direction BI goes with modding.

*all of this is based on how the population wants to play, and what they want out of the server.* I totally agree with the direction BI is taking if it wishes to continue with top modding games like Arma 3 was.

If, and i mean IF vanilla Survival survives in Dayz SA on official or private servers, i expect it will grow with a community that enjoys it.

But honestly i feel some of these arguments i read today, are out by 1-2 years, its a different game now.

 

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I believe that the fact that new games came out that attracted most of the casual playerbase is the reason for this. The only ones left playing are mostly veterans and survival people who know how to play the game and avoid being seen. 

You almost dont find bambis anymore because players live longer and know how to survive, which includes reducing unnecessary travel to high traffic areas and mostly are in the forests.  

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^^^ Sounds like really fun game. Hey lets avoid everybody and survive as long as possible (and it is sooo easy to survive in DayZ, when you are serious about it). Really entertaining...


I remember when DayZ had audio after death (another fun feature which was removed, sadly) I was chased by the side of the map by highly geared up guy, clearly playing extremely seriously. He came at me with M4, and furiously yelled to put my hands up. I was stressed and it was dark in the room, I did press "2" instead of "F2", and accidentally pulled out Red9, he killed me instantly of course. It would have been just stupid accident... But if you would have heard that guy... He was honestly angry, sad, upset because of that - he spend a lot of time looting, surviving, running in virtual world for hours, and when he had an opportunity for some interaction to break down the frustration and loneliness, he used it, but I ruined it by accidentally pressing F2 lol

The truth is that when you choose to meet and talk to people, you are no longer very serious in your "survival role", so it is best to rest in your loneliness, if your goal is just to survive longer. You may encounter someone sometime accidentally. But you most likely will be unaware of it to happen at all because of all those hours spent alone.. And that rare encounters might be quite weird, for example really short.

Fun.

When I bought DayZ I expected to struggle to survive. Average life expectancy shouldn't be hours. But thats how much time it takes to get average loot in the first place, then another hour to spot someone or get spotted, then it is 50/50, and cycle continues. 

 

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Bring back the map, chat's, kill messages and player list. Boats, bicycles and bigger servers would help too.

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45 minutes ago, Seitan said:

Bring back the map, chat's, kill messages and player list. Boats, bicycles and bigger servers would help too.

Exactly these things you mention will not lead to more interaction, they will tend to lead to more sneaky and trolling. The only thing that can lead to what the OP thought were the boats, but this only if it is not possible to bring a boat into the water alone. We just wait for the beta with their new mechanics and systems, the problem could be solved by itself. Man will only work with other people when it is no longer possible alone. I know this experience from an MMO, there you were always dependent on groups until the game mutated by an update to the ego game, from the time it was off with interaction and real group game ... the game is RIP ... Because it had to come so. (I do not want to compare it with DayZ, it is only about the aspect of "alone or together")

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Yes, getting shared goals would be awesome, I remember searching for car parts with other people already, it was quite fun. I would love Bikes and Bicycles to be much easier, especially bicycles - just take and go. 

Finding some people to get a boat and ambushing prison island would be epic. Could not help being beck seat dev here - a river to reach inlands with boat will be one of the most popular wishlists item as soon as there will be teasers with boats lol

We have to admit that there might be a physical limit for server sizes, weren't we supposed to have 150people servers by now ? I don't think it is possible, I think 100people servers are quite optimistic. Devs already are optimizing things such as dead body despawn time... It is most likely that for more people, the answer will be not more people, but smaller maps, or more defined locations, where encounters would be guaranteed.

I don't think map, chat and public kill messages would help. I think public server info window in options would help, I don't find console being fully informative. Would be good to open server info window, and find useful info. Such as "battle at Gorka", "drag race at NWA", pvp zone here and there, hunting event, event to find something hidden somewhere and so on.... 

Of course we will get the gameplay after Beta, I hope

Edited by Mantasisg

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The, "KoS" mentality has been perpetuated through, Streams/YouTube Videos/Reddit and other sites, such as this one. Where most if not ALL gameplay videos, or streams are all about killing other players, killing squads of people, knocking people unconscious and poisoning them, to the point that is all people expect to happen when they play, and see someone, that that someone is going to try and kill them, or they should kill that person. Interactions are one of the most interesting parts of playing DayZ, but sadly, the only thing that occurs in killing on sight, because why do anything else , when the only thing shown or they've seen on the web, is killing each other.

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PVP is interaction also haha, unless it is first and deadly bullet from someone you have had no idea being around you. And it happens a lot, especially now. It is all down to player density. It is actually awesome to get involved into proper gunfight. For me it is what I want to do in DayZ, I don't want to kill as much, but I want to get into battles. And it is too rare. 

And it is not like getting into battles asap you see other player, but playing around, communicating, and things naturally happen. But if there aren't enough people to interact you might start forcing things out of frustration and gameplay gets rather poor.

 

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