Soft skills + Know-How´s = Immersion + Life Value

[exwoll 252]

In case of somebody not having the idea about the future soft-skill system, here´s an interview with Brian where he explain the thing (Watch from min 9:40).

In short: It will be a system that manages the dexterity of a character with certain tasks, simulating natural experience in them. That´s a great system that will incentive people to value more their characters life and at the same time give them some spectrum of specialization in the things a player likes.

But I believe that we can make it a whole lot better introducing a Knowledge/Know-How Tree that would give even more value to a characters life allowing him to perform certain tasks that would require certain Information to realize, that it´s outside of a normal person ordinary knowledge without limiting them in any way with classes, professions, etc. Just pure survival and the role of informations (the right one) in a real survival scenario.

 

What is this Knowledge or Know-How?

 

Your character have an UI tree of locked subjects, that enable your character to:

• Perform actions
• Receive instructions/material lists 
• Unlock the branch of a subject to get access to advanced techniques or knowledge (understand/read other books)

 

How would an in-game character get the knowledge?

 

As in real life - through books. Once a character "reads" the book on a subject, he "unlocks" the branch of the tree  on that subject, allowing him to "know" how to perform certain action, and the things he will need for it.

For example:

1. You want to build a wall (you can do it by yourself or find someone with that knowledge)
2. You need the knowledge or to find a book (some kind of structure)
3. When you find the book, you unlock the subject or the branch or the info on materials you gonna need for certain action. In our case lets suppose that our character knows how to build wooden structures, he unlocked the basic ones, and made available for him to "read"/understand  a book on advanced wooden structures (which would enable him to make better structures)
4. Now you need to gather the materials for your wooden wall. For the basic one, you only need logs. But for example if you want to build a fortified one, you gonna need special wooden pieces (and the knowledge of how to gather them)

When you know all this, your character just have the option to build a simple wooden wall. But if you don´t have the knowledge, even if you manage to gather the materials, you will not have an option to build the wall, and your charactar will only say "I don´t know what to do with all this".

The tree would look like a techology tree in some games (will use Civ one as example)

You could also enable/unlock a know-how/knowledge/hard-skill by practicing the previous related one (or several) an X amount of times. This would simulate the expertise you get in one area and develop the next level by yourself.

For example, if you build enough Basic Log Walls, you could get enough expertise to start building the fortified walls. Or if you chop enough logs, you could get the knowledge to make some woodwork.

 

Which tasks would require this "knowledge"?

 

The knowledge tree would have some of the following subjects:

 

Advanced Mechanics - Would allow a character to fix/build complex mechanisms and systems with certain elements

• Mechanical Knowledge - Fix weapons, cars (outside of the basic things that are already available) and other mechanical parts (probably needed in basebuilding.
• Electronics Knowledge - Fix electronics (radios, night vision googles and other electronic devices)
• Electric Knowledge - Fix/build things as base light systems, generators, etc

Construction Knowledge  - Would allow the character to build things, and also destroy them. A character will be able to collect the materials without this knowledge, but not how to use them. 

• Wood structures
• Metal structures
• Complex structures 

Advanced Medical Knowledge - It would enable the character to realize complex medical tasks, aswell as reduce the chances of the character getting an infection from wounds, etc

• CPR
• Blood transfusion (i mean seriously  does anyone knows how to do one apart from medics?)
• Complex treatment (infection, serious wounds?)

Advanced Military Knowledge 

• Explosives (arming and disarming) 
• Military signs 
• Use of complex military gear (radios, some weapons)
• Also fixing weapons
• Crafting Ghilles (the good ones at least)

Miscellaneous

• Lockpicking - Enable a character to use lockpicks and also to open bases doors 
• Food conservation - Enable a character to storage food for long periods of time without it getting spoiled (smoked meat, use of salt, etc)
• Horticulture - Enable a character to plant his own food (seriously, far from everyone knows how to do that)
• Advanced Cooking - In case that vanilla or a mod comes up with a "morale" system (nor moral), better dishes would add more to morale.
• Advanced Crafting
• etc

Material gathering

• Mining - Enable a character to gather specific rocks 
• Woodwork - Enable a character to craft specialized wood pieces
• etc

 

Variables for the implementation

 

Random know-how(s) assigned to your character.

This would simulate the residual knowledge you have from your "normal" life. These know-hows are advanced ones, that would be useful in the future (so by the time you need them you could also get them playing the game) and will avoid people suiciding to get a better set from the beginning.

 

Non-Compatible branches

In case you choose one branch, you automatically block another one in the tree for ever. (This is somehow implemented in StarCraft 2, where you can choose ways for your troops to evolve, and in Dota 2, where you have a skill tree where you choose various paths to upgrade your hero through the game. But their trees are very limited with 2-3 paths of "specialization")

This way people specialized in offensive knowledge would have to search for people specialized in structures or medicine if they want to build a base or heal themselves often.

 

Ability to show your knowledge trough some special armband or badge,etc ( Suggested by dorn956)

One could have special signs to show the knowledge your character have. These would be optional, and you could only show one of the know-hows/hard skills your character has (for example you know how to build concrete walls and also advanced medicine, but you can only have one distinctive sign.

These could be badges in the cloth/backpacks, or armbands.

 

Simulate information digestion (book reading) (Suggested by Sqeezorz)

To present a real way of knowledge being acquired by the character, there could be a timer (minutes /hours/ days) that the character should have the book on themselves. This could be enchanced by actually reading the book with some minimal info on the subject (?)

 

Books condition should affect the value they carry (Suggested by Sqeezorz)

Deteriorated books should provide less information (a % or a random part of the whole depending on the condition), making it necessary to get another copy of the book containing the missing part(s).

This could also be applied increasing the time it takes to digest the book.

 

Books of Important and really valuable knowledge (like Explosives, or really fancy base building techniques, etc) could be separated in several Volumes.

This would make the person who got the whole knowledge more valuable, and naturally limit the number of people that carry it. Also adding a lot of fun trying to get all the volumes :)

 

What will this add to the gameplay?

 

1. Immersion - You will feel the value of knowledge and books in a post-apocalyptic world
2. Realism - You will not be able to build a fortress from scratch without any knowledge or to repair something
3. Character Value - Your character life will be valued aside from your skills, by the knowledge you managed to get.
4. Other players life´s value - Other players will be essential to realize some things if you dont have or dont want some knowledge (this could be accentuated with a limit on the quantity of knowledge a character can get)
5. Books will have a value - Books for knowledge could be rare or limited per server.
6. Everyone will have "side quests" to get the book they need
7. Books could become a  natural currency for trading and not only an RP element or extra fuel for fires 

 

Edit History

17.3.17

• Added CIV tech tree example
• the ability to "unlock" know-hows by performing multiple times a previous related skill,
• some variables for the implementation, 
• dorn956 suggestion on special signs, 
• Sqeezorz suggestions on deteriorated books and knowledge digestion (acquisition)

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by exwoll

[dorn956 43]

I like this idea of skills and classes to produce a sense of value to all unknown characters. I feel like the KoS rate would drop drastically. However, I don't support the knowledge gained through unlockable achievements through in-game keys (such as books).

However, to keep that sense of value within players, I suggest a system of choice on character screen. A lot like Dead Frontier™ , if you google that, or have ever played it. Certain classes have certain skills of value with appropriate pros and cons to each class.

E.G. - Medics: Obviously can treat wounds and illnesses with great ease in comparison to a DIY survivor. However, low combat skills like accuracy with firearms and physical strength / stamina. Whereas a marine for example will have high combat skills and a crash course in medicine probably, so they can do a bit more than your average engineer can with medicine, but not nearly as much as a straight medic can do.

Point tweaking during character creation I don't support, though. I'm sure there will be 'the perfect combo' for PKers to spam. So I'd rather players not truly know their limits like that. If it was random it would be even better...

Imagine spawning in and being assigned a role that you have to play on for at least 30+ minutes (or something along that line) before your class will change on your next life

Now THAT I'd like to see.

[dorn956 43]

In fact. this is basically that same concept - just a bit of a different perspective of it on our ends

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/183479-perksskillsprofessionsstats/

[exwoll 252]

I was trying to avoid "classes" since they limit a player, and I would agree with Brian here, that´s not what DayZ is about. I don´t believe that a characters previous profession should limit his development as character in the post-apocalyptic world. That´s not realistic. 

And I would add here in real life too, because personally I´ve been professionally trained in 2 branches (with a master degree in one), I got bored of them, tried 3 other things, and through the years ended up in a totally different sphere lol. 

Of course they could have some effect on players (like for example give random knowledges to bambis to simulate some residual training from the good days) , but I´m against them limiting things that directly depend on player actions and experience in the game (as marksmanship, etc), which would be perfectly controlled by the soft skills system introduced by the devs. 

Regarding books: They would be the only source of knowledge in a post apocalyptic world. You will barely have any solar powered PC to access digital info (if you manage to find any useful), internet would be dead, etc. The only real way someone could learn advanced things would be through books (The Last Man on Earth and Earth 2032 come to mind that used this concept). 

It will not work as achievements you unlock in an arcadish game. It would simulate the gained knowledge (maybe with some real info text added to them) and what it would enable your character to do. 

For example if you are aimlessly lost in the jungle, dying from starvation and dehydration, and suddenly you find a crashed plane with a survival book on it, it automatically (well with some time IRL) enables you to find food, start fires with available materials, build traps, etc. You just extrapolate that system to a graphical tree system that can be enhanced a little to work in the context of the gameplay. 

In the end everyone will know everything and will only need books as tokens to unlock the way they want to go with the character, but thats inevitable with any game mechanic. People are like this. 

Edit: It would work somehow as the workshop in This War of Mine, where you needed something to get something better.

Edited March 17, 2017 by exwoll

[dorn956 43]

So you're suggesting players start with residual knowledge of a profession and then have the adaptability to learn other skills over time, while having an adept capability in their primary skill?

[exwoll 252]

2 minutes ago, dorn956 said:

So you're suggesting players start with residual knowledge of a profession and then have the adaptability to learn other skills over time, while having an adept capability in their primary skill?

Yup, like an option, characters could spawn with a random skill/know-how. The problem there, is that people would start to suicide till they get the one they want lol.

So if that variable is implemented, there should be a range of know-hows that would be available for that and that don´t help the character in the first steps of his survival journey (like knowing how to install power systems in bases, or something else that could be obtainable through another way by that time), or just an impossibility to kill yourself (however they could make themselves kill by another player, so this would be futile anyway lol).

 

[dorn956 43]

12 minutes ago, exwoll said:

Yup, like an option, characters could spawn with a random skill/know-how. The problem there, is that people would start to suicide till they get the one they want lol.

So if that variable is implemented, there should be a range of know-hows that would be available for that and that don´t help the character in the first steps of his survival journey (like knowing how to install power systems in bases, or something else that could be obtainable through another way by that time), or just an impossibility to kill yourself (however they could make themselves kill by another player, so this would be futile anyway lol).

 

I mentioned earlier a time limit before class swap too. Like an hour gameplay time before class can change maybe. But I see where youre coming from yes. This could be beneficial to hone in on a system thatm creates character value

[exwoll 252]

Even with an hour, if know-hows/hard-skills take generally much more than an hour to find/get, people will just wait that hour to kill themselves lol.  

[dorn956 43]

Just now, exwoll said:

Even with an hour, if know-hows/hard-skills take generally much more than an hour to find/get, people will just wait that hour to kill themselves lol.  

Yeah you're right. I suppose limitation won't be the best. So just start from level 0 in everything and learn how to do it through experience and knowledge gain from outside sources.

It would make characters way more valueable to players who own them. Im still not sure if it would increase value of thr unknown.. If there was a way for sure to know someone was a medic for example their chances of being KOS will be slim

[exwoll 252]

7 minutes ago, dorn956 said:

If there was a way for sure to know someone was a medic for example their chances of being KOS will be slim

I was thinking about a way that you could show your knowledge to other people. But the problem there, is that it would take some interactions out of the table (for example you wouldn´t be able to lie about a skill you know to save your life from bandits that are searching a medic to patch them up everytime xD).  

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by exwoll

[dorn956 43]

Just now, exwoll said:

I was thinking about a way that you could show your knowledge to other people. But the problem there, is that it would take some interactions out of the table (for example you wouldn´t be able to lie about a skill you know to save your life from bandits xD).  

Lmao. "You a doctor?"

"Yes"

"No"

*gunshot*

I was thinking maybe you could have a special armband awarded to you that doesnt take up inventory space for proof of knowledge once you reach a certain level of skill

Buy I hope that doesnt defeat surrealism by magically obtaining said armband. Or for what reason other people cant forge one

[exwoll 252]

One way could be to make some know-hows non-compatible .

In case you choose one branch, you automatically block another one in the tree for ever. (This is somehow implemented in StarCraft 2, where you can choose ways for your troops to evolve, and in Dota 2, where you have a skill tree where you choose various paths to upgrade your hero thorugh the game. But theyir trees are very limited with 2-3 paths of "specialization")

This way people specialized in offensive knowledge would have to search for people specialized in structures or medicine if they want to build a base or heal themselves often.

Edit: The distinctive sign could work. It could be an armband or a badge, and you could only show one or 2 of the skills your character has. I´ll edit my first post with your suggestion . 

Edited March 17, 2017 by exwoll

[Sqeezorz 839]

Maybe I have misunderstood something, but the skills a character has simmered or must remain "invisible" to others, first the interaction or a proof must prove the abilities. It must always be the uncertainty in the foreground .... a character with full medic equip can also be a weapon expert. I like the ideas especially because of a point. It takes community to achieve a lot, as an example helicopter to function must have certain knowledge, the same with weapons repair .... can shoot anyone, but a damaged weapon needs to be already something knowledge. The thing with the books I find a very good point. But there should be some time spent in the book to increase knowledge ... I do not mean hours, but a few minutes should be a must, not the one with a library in 10 sec max skill. Also, a book alone should not suffice, but in the run-up and reading of the reading the action. So it becomes meaningless at the coast a hoard with 20 books to hoard. The idea can lead to the books being the best loot of chernarus. If it is even led so far that a Pristine book comes to success (skill-up), and a badly damaged book the 4x time needed (a ruined book Is ineffective), then you have to 2x to kill a char equal to KoS ... the success could thus die with. (I hope it's readable .... google-translated :/ ).

[exwoll 252]

38 minutes ago, Sqeezorz said:

Maybe I have misunderstood something, but the skills a character has simmered or must remain "invisible" to others, first the interaction or a proof must prove the abilities. It must always be the uncertainty in the foreground .... a character with full medic equip can also be a weapon expert. I like the ideas especially because of a point. It takes community to achieve a lot, as an example helicopter to function must have certain knowledge, the same with weapons repair .... can shoot anyone, but a damaged weapon needs to be already something knowledge. The thing with the books I find a very good point. But there should be some time spent in the book to increase knowledge ... I do not mean hours, but a few minutes should be a must, not the one with a library in 10 sec max skill. Also, a book alone should not suffice, but in the run-up and reading of the reading the action. So it becomes meaningless at the coast a hoard with 20 books to hoard. The idea can lead to the books being the best loot of chernarus. If it is even led so far that a Pristine book comes to success (skill-up), and a badly damaged book the 4x time needed (a ruined book Is ineffective), then you have to 2x to kill a char equal to KoS ... the success could thus die with. (I hope it's readable .... google-translated :/ ).

Nice ideas! I added them to the main post! 

Also important books could be separated in several volumes, so people that get the whole thing could be really valuable.

[Sqeezorz 839]

26 minutes ago, exwoll said:

Nice ideas! I added them to the main post! 

Also important books could be separated in several volumes, so people that get the whole thing could be really valuable.

 

You mean as it once was with the map of Chernarus ... in 4 parts. Band 1 & 2 and band 3 & 4 brings the success.

 

Edit: your post in combination with the post of @Irishjake make a big immersion.

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sqeezorz