[Punching] New Melee System Suggestion

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

Introduction

I put up a post a while back on punch control: https://forums.dayz.com/topic/227759-punch-control/

Considering there is going to be an overhaul to the melee system I feel it's time to revisit the topic and expand on my previous suggestion.

DayZ needs a basic and functional punching system. There has to be penalties as well as rewards for trying to punch someone.

The System

I need to throw just a jab whenever I want. Maybe I want to throw 2-3 jabs, there needs to be a key set up for that...key bindinsg can be altered when the guard is raised if the concern is lack of keys. Same for the straight right hand, left hook, as well as uppercuts (left and right).

Having 5 basic punches would be great. If 5 is too high, remove the uppercuts which will put us at 3. Even H1Z1 has uppercuts so I'm sure DayZ can make that happen.

1. Jab (left)
2. Straight Right
3. Left Hook
4. Left Uppercut
5. Right Uppercut

Implementation

My suggestion is remove the torso movements with Q+E when the guard is raised. It's too complex and has too much of a delay to use when fighting to try and slip a punch. Replace with Q for jab (left) and E for right hand. R for left hook, T for left uppercut, and Y for right uppercut. One-punch knockout punches should be limited to left hooks and straight right hands. I'm not suggesting anything too complex, but if something advanced IS on the table then I've got the experience and knowledge to expand on the concept even further. As it stands, I would like to keep it as basic as possible.

Psychology

There should be a high variable for someone to break their hand (just on the fleshy head alone). This will make a player think hard before trying to knock someone out and maybe force an interaction. If you punch a motor cycle helmet or etc, 100% broken hand. A freshy thinks quite often, well what do I have to lose if I try and knock this geared guy out? I'll die, respawn, rinse/repeat...no problem.

There needs to be a penalty for trying to knock someone out. Freshies have nothing to lose and very often will try and attack someone to get their gear. There is too much PvP in DayZ SA as it is, revamping the punching system can organically help DayZ get back to more interaction like there was in the mod. Maybe try to talk someone out of their gear instead of trying to knock them out for it?

Penalty vs Reward

Break a hand (I'm not talking hairline fractures, you break a hand it's a solid metacarple bone break), reduce damage by 25%-75% depending on the severity of the break. Also, if you break a hand you should punch slower. Perhaps a 25% reduction in punching speed. Sure you see guys in professional boxing continue fighting with a borked hand, but they are wrapped as well as fitted with a glove...and did I mention professional? On the street, breaking your hand has a much more dire effect. Breaking a hand and continuing to use it for punching should have a damaging effect on the player as well.

On a more advanced note, if you hit someone with a left hook to the chin...there should be a very very low probability of a broken hand. It's almost hitting soft tissue considering the dynamics of your fist compared to the bone symmetry of a chin/jaw. Straight right hands to the skull, high probability of a broken hand. Straight right hand to the mouth: less probability. Orbitals: medium probability. Jabs: low probability depending on where they land (mouth vs orbital, vs forehead, etc)

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If anyone has suggestions, feel free to add your thoughts and criticism (preferably constructive)!

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Weyland Yutani (DayZ)

[skbernard 1]

i definitely like the idea a lot - any sort of improvements in depth, where a system could reward skill and not just button mashing is a good thing in my opinion, the only thoughts i had on things that i would potentially change are the default button maps

i know super user can remap whatever buttons they want to whatever controls they want, but i feel like moving combat functionality to keys away from mouse clicks when the rest of the game is based around mouse clicks, might be a little jarring to a default setup user

i know there is the technical capability to detect the different between a mouse click and a slight longer mouse click, not quite a hold(nothing crazy like charging a punch or anything like that) just a subtle timing difference that i think could be used for situations like the hook and the uppercuts - while also reducing the key usage

for instance, maybe the following set up could be used:

• left jab - left click
• straight right - right click
• left hook - long left click
• right uppercut - long right click
• left upper cut - long left click immediately after any right punch

i think the q&e leans could be turned into a head juke if the fists are raised - maybe the new player controller combined with the animations may smooth this out so that it would actually be functional and not clunky, who knows

[Guy Smiley 534]

Down, down right, right and punch

[Slave 2]

Ducking and Diving like a pro. Thou you should have to pick a char stat on creation with right side power or a southpaw, mebbe ambi but should have less stats on both. Breaking one hand don't work if you got 2 :D Plus on the streets you got "Heads, Elbows, Knees and Toe's, Knees and Toe's and a mouth with teeth that bite their nose. Heads, Elbows, Knees and Toe's, Knees and Toe's" :P

 

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

1 hour ago, Slave said:

Ducking and Diving like a pro. Thou you should have to pick a char stat on creation with right side power or a southpaw, mebbe ambi but should have less stats on both. Breaking one hand don't work if you got 2 :D Plus on the streets you got "Heads, Elbows, Knees and Toe's, Knees and Toe's and a mouth with teeth that bite their nose. Heads, Elbows, Knees and Toe's, Knees and Toe's" :P

I don't want to scare anybody off which is why I want to keep it as basic as possible. A small variety pf punches and call it a day.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

i think the developers will come up with melee actions that will work just fine.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

4 hours ago, green_mtn_grandbob said:

i think the developers will come up with melee actions that will work just fine.

Maybe, maybe not. The current system lacks lustre. A lot of people are complaining about their plans for soft skills. I would rather them have a helping hand to help get it right from someone who is an authority on the subject than coming up with something random. My great Uncle was a pro, my Dad was an amateur, I was an amateur with a winning record that trained and was sparring partners with domestic and world title holders. I've got over 5,000 boxing matches in my offline archive and seen heaps more. Handicapped pro boxing for 2 years with a 92% winning record. My first memories are Sugar Ray Leonard in the 77' Olympics. I've played every boxing game ever created (up until Fight Night Champion) and paid attention to engine capabilities with the biggest titles (Fight Night). I know whats possible and most importantly whats fun, more than most people.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Weyland Yutani (DayZ)

[Guy Smiley 534]

20 hours ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Maybe, maybe not. The current system lacks lustre. A lot of people are complaining about their plans for soft skills. I would rather them have a helping hand to help get it right from someone who is an authority on the subject than coming up with something random. My great Uncle was a pro, my Dad was an amateur, I was an amateur with a winning record that trained and was sparring partners with domestic and world title holders. I've got over 5,000 boxing matches in my offline archive and seen heaps more. Handicapped pro boxing for 2 years with a 92% winning record. My first memories are Sugar Ray Leonard in the 77' Olympics. I've played every boxing game ever created (up until Fight Night Champion) and paid attention to engine capabilities with the biggest titles (Fight Night). I know whats possible and most importantly whats fun, more than most people.

But this isn't a fighting game nor is the engine designed to simulate fighting.   I personally expect it's going to be a very simplistic melee system that's similar to what we have but more streamlined.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

1 hour ago, Guy Smiley said:

But this isn't a fighting game nor is the engine designed to simulate fighting.   I personally expect it's going to be a very simplistic melee system that's similar to what we have but more streamlined.

I never said it was a fighting game and I said I want to keep it BASIC. What other words can be used other than 'basic punching?' Did you even read what I typed? The current system blows.

My proposal: one punch per key and 3-5 basic punches.

The only other system that's more basic than that is 3-5 punches with 1 button. My proposal hardly makes it a fighting game. The engine can handle one punch per button. Jeesh...

Every time I get into a fist fight I lose. I'll get one shotted completely fresh and never once in 4,500 hours have I got a one punch knockout. Rock in hand or knuckles. BASIC PUNCH CONTROL is what DayZ SA needs. Not a button mash that does everything.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Weyland Yutani (DayZ)