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exwoll

Any official opinion regarding a gamma exploit fix?

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I haven't managed to find any "official" info regarding the gamma issue so far.  

There's a lot of info around, some potential solutions (one was already taken by Rust), but no statements coming from the devs regarding if they even see this as an exploit or as a "feature" of the game lol.

Is there a remote chance to get an inside opinion on this matter? :) Because you guys are making a great job with the lighting to just throw it to the bin :/

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited by exwoll
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Actually unofficial response, and the devs are very aware of gamma, low graphics, all kinds of things problems. IT is being tweaked as we go. I know this for a fact, because after i reported a lengthy report on it things started to improve with the new render engine.

In time is all we can do.

I think the biggest issue @exwoll is the amount of little things, and large things to do and piece it all together.

 

I try to help with as many bug stories as i can, but things are improving so without cluttering up of the same bugs i usually check to see if someone else reported it first.

 

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4 hours ago, sneakydude said:

Actually unofficial response, and the devs are very aware of gamma, low graphics, all kinds of things problems. IT is being tweaked as we go. I know this for a fact, because after i reported a lengthy report on it things started to improve with the new render engine.

In time is all we can do.

I think the biggest issue @exwoll is the amount of little things, and large things to do and piece it all together.

 

I try to help with as many bug stories as i can, but things are improving so without cluttering up of the same bugs i usually check to see if someone else reported it first.

 

Totally agree with it. There is a big clusterfuck with the bugs and other issues that are being steadly (and quite quickly as for the last month) fixed. 

The difference is that some things are mentioned and commented in status reports, forums, etc. But the gamma thing wasn't mentioned at all, so there's nothing that could signal about how the devs are seeing this (if they see it as a problem and will fix it in the future, or just leave it as it is, etc).

It would make a great difference to have Brian or Peter mention here or in the status reports that "Yeah guys, we are well aware of the unimerssive experience that players have to face during nighttime, but for now we have to give priority to more urgent matters. Have patience, it will all fit together at the end ;)"  :D 

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Even if they were to remove the gamma and brightness sliders from the game people will always look for a work around/exploit to it.

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2 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

Even if they were to remove the gamma and brightness sliders from the game people will always look for a work around/exploit to it.

Yup, 3rd party tools. Monitors can change brightness and apps like SweetFx or etc.

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3 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

Even if they were to remove the gamma and brightness sliders from the game people will always look for a work around/exploit to it.

2016-09-01_16-04-56.jpg

If a good solution is implemented (a nice shader that makes every texture without light black), there´s no 3rd party tool that can help 

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Didn't Arma 3 alpha have a fix to this problem?

I can't seem to find any threads relating to it but this picture was posted ages ago when it was introduced.

I read that this was from a thread by SmashT on this forum ages ago.

I'm sure the devs have something planned for this issue and it would be one of the things they will want to fix.

ZVK0Qhm.jpg

Dhd85M3.jpg

Edited by DannyDog
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2 hours ago, DannyDog said:

Didn't Arma 3 alpha have a fix to this problem?

I can't seem to find any threads relating to it but this picture was posted ages ago when it was introduced.

I read that this was from a thread by SmashT on this forum ages ago.

I'm sure the devs have something planned for this issue and it would be one of the things they will want to fix.

 

Thanks for bringing my hope back. The only reason I stopped playing the night is the knowledge that I'm probably the only one on the server not using the gamma exploit.

Now I think of it, I remember that there were problems with light sources, like the gas lamp and torch basically made you see only the gas lamp or torch itself and even without the exploit you were better off without any light. I sure hope this gets fixed and people will actually have to use light sources. I understand vision accommodation but it is not how it works in real life.

OTOH, the head torches were "OP" as they were visible to other players only when you looked 'up', i.e. not when you were looting.

The nighttime could use some tinkering, but I love the ambience of Chernarus by night and I'm looking forward to it.

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1 hour ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

Thanks for bringing my hope back. The only reason I stopped playing the night is the knowledge that I'm probably the only one on the server not using the gamma exploit.

Now I think of it, I remember that there were problems with light sources, like the gas lamp and torch basically made you see only the gas lamp or torch itself and even without the exploit you were better off without any light. I sure hope this gets fixed and people will actually have to use light sources. I understand vision accommodation but it is not how it works in real life.

OTOH, the head torches were "OP" as they were visible to other players only when you looked 'up', i.e. not when you were looting.

The nighttime could use some tinkering, but I love the ambience of Chernarus by night and I'm looking forward to it.

The general lighting in the game could use some tinkering. Like darker shadows, darker lighting during lots of cloud cover or even when indoors or in forests.

One of my pet peeves is how bright forests are when in reality that amount of leaf coverage should make it fairly dark.

Edited by DannyDog

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10 hours ago, DannyDog said:

Didn't Arma 3 alpha have a fix to this problem?

I can't seem to find any threads relating to it but this picture was posted ages ago when it was introduced.

I read that this was from a thread by SmashT on this forum ages ago.

I'm sure the devs have something planned for this issue and it would be one of the things they will want to fix.

For some reason Arma 3 doesn't work like that to me at least on KotH servers (yes I play on servers where night happens and is very dark). Don't really know why. Dark areas appear quite clear when increasing brightness and contrast to the limit where game still seems visually decent.

I truly hope they manage to find a way to prevent to complete negate night effects in DayZ.

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I can adjust brightness, gamma, contrast and black level on my monitor with a remote. I guess you could say it came with built in exploit. 

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On 1/12/2017 at 7:33 PM, DannyDog said:

Didn't Arma 3 alpha have a fix to this problem?

I can't seem to find any threads relating to it but this picture was posted ages ago when it was introduced.

I read that this was from a thread by SmashT on this forum ages ago.

I'm sure the devs have something planned for this issue and it would be one of the things they will want to fix.

Thank you for sharing. I hope they have plans to implement something like this in DayZ in the future. Until gamma manipulation can no longer be done, in game lighting is never going to be used en masse.

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I wonder if it would be possible to impose a server setting that kept brightness and gamma at specific levels. 

Or just give players a Field of Vision that only expands out to 50 meters in the dark, passed that distance would just be pitch black unless the player had a flashlight or light source in that area. 

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3 hours ago, Espa said:

I wonder if it would be possible to impose a server setting that kept brightness and gamma at specific levels. 

And here we have the usual post about restricting base game functions just to prevent an exploit. Doesn't matter the impact it will have on players who need those settings, nah. 

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This is an interesting subject I think. 

I do not hike up the GAMMA when playing at night, nor never have. When I 1st started playing back almost when the SA 1st came out, it was pitch black at night period. Night nav was really difficult. You could only see the outline of objects, street lights, tree outlines ect. I took the time to still try to run around make it to point to point b, using stars, weather on a incline or decline. I will admit not always with success. I served in the military and it was similar to night nav minus true north, and some of the more complex aspects of night nav. I did think at the time it was abit over kill for your average player, unless they were into simulations.

Now days things are much more visible at night, there is a level of sight and lighting. I do not feel the need to turn up gamma. I know there are players who do turn up gamma and to gain almost day time level of sight. Exploits will be used in games if there made available period. Every game I have ever played people exploit mechanics, more so in MMOs. I think at this point it should be looked into. The level of lighting is more then good right now at night. Force players to either adapt to the lighting using lighting sources in game or simply adapt to the lower lighting. Also, maybe provide night vision optics on as a vary rare item latter in.

Just my thoughts.

Edited by CJFlint

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Players night vision should increase over time when exposed to low light conditions reaching it's peak in around 40 minutes (average real life time needed for just that) Don't know if you ever had a chance to spend an hour in dark (not pitch black) place with no artificial light but maybe with right natural night vision less people would exploit the gamma. Or should we not bother fixing exploits with in game mechanics and just restrict everything ?

Edited by General Zod
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Well you bring up a really good point, your eyes do adjust. That is something that could be looked into as well, adding that mechanic in. I think that is a really good point. Say if you light a fire your eyes readjust which is already kind of there, or temp blinded by a headlight or flash..One of the reasons I bring up night vision flir, is because it could be a nice alt something on could find at a crash sight that could help them at night. Also having a feature say if there is a flash or bright light it could be temp thrown off. Just an idea

As far as exploits go, well like I said people will use them weather they admit or not with in MMOs. DayZ SA is a can be a really unforgiving MMO, so I would say players at times will use what ever advantage is presented to them, even more so on say a high pop when they want to survive. Now I do not turn the gamma up, although I will confess during groups we always tended to be mainly on daytime servers anyways on higher pops. I just don't ever think to use it on night servers, pref game immersion. That's just me, I will not knock people who do, because quite frankly it is completely withing the game to simply turn it up. 

Also I think most players gravitate toward daytime servers on higher pops, at least during the bulk of the time I spent playing. So me personally I think it is a lower on the scale of things that should be looked into. Would you agree? In fact I would say I have always had less encounters with other player at night regardless. 

Also the game has had much worse vis at night, you know that. It used to be really bad right at release. One could not see anything....Its way better now. So I do not think its that bad at all right now.

Edited by CJFlint

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This is also bothered me and in my opinion they should do the thing in game that gamma setting dont give so big advantage. Yes you are able to use nvidia control panel etc. but I hope there will be in future couple servers that requires you to run somekinda 3rd party anticheat which is looking up if you change your gamma settings or something like that. 

Chernarus night is already great by the way.

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5 hours ago, jappegaming said:

This is also bothered me and in my opinion they should do the thing in game that gamma setting dont give so big advantage. Yes you are able to use nvidia control panel etc. but I hope there will be in future couple servers that requires you to run somekinda 3rd party anticheat which is looking up if you change your gamma settings or something like that. 

Chernarus night is already great by the way.

That is never going to happen. Anti cheat is anti cheat. Not something to search your entire PC for files and gamma settings. Like I said, don't go after a fly with a bazooka. We need to start with mechanics, you can hold a pistol and a flash light at the same time real life, let's add that to the game so we don't have to rely on pistil flash light alone. Gamma is a different type of exploit, it's not something like copying items or hiding in the walls it's more of a compensation for lack of mechanics to make playing at night more fun. I can't shine a flash light on a compass or on a map, stars can't be used for directions. People don't crank up the gamma just so they can KoS in the dark. 

 

@CJFlint Oh night and maybe even thermal vision will be in this game don't wory about that. 

Edited by General Zod

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22 hours ago, General Zod said:

That is never going to happen. Anti cheat is anti cheat. Not something to search your entire PC for files and gamma settings. Like I said, don't go after a fly with a bazooka. We need to start with mechanics, you can hold a pistol and a flash light at the same time real life, let's add that to the game so we don't have to rely on pistil flash light alone. Gamma is a different type of exploit, it's not something like copying items or hiding in the walls it's more of a compensation for lack of mechanics to make playing at night more fun. I can't shine a flash light on a compass or on a map, stars can't be used for directions. People don't crank up the gamma just so they can KoS in the dark. 

 

@CJFlint Oh night and maybe even thermal vision will be in this game don't wory about that. 

Hardware restrictions are very difficult and costs a fortune to higher a team to program every which way. We will never get there, and if we do i hope they market it.

All we can do is run a 3rd party engine, to help render things and if changes made, re render it back.

I am no expert on this by any means, but we tried this so many years ago half of the dayz population probably wasn't born yet. Then you have to agree to allowing this to be ran on your computer to play this game.

 

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7 hours ago, sneakydude said:

Hardware restrictions are very difficult and costs a fortune to higher a team to program every which way. We will never get there, and if we do i hope they market it.

All we can do is run a 3rd party engine, to help render things and if changes made, re render it back.

I am no expert on this by any means, but we tried this so many years ago half of the dayz population probably wasn't born yet. Then you have to agree to allowing this to be ran on your computer to play this game.

 

But gamma exploit isn't a big enough problem to go to that lengths. They won't invest time and money to get a 3rd party engine to scan for a software that can modify your gamma settings. It's not a game breaking cheat. And you are still ignoring what I said about lack luster in game mechanics. 

Edited by General Zod
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On 13/01/2017 at 3:07 AM, exwoll said:

2016-09-01_16-04-56.jpg

If a good solution is implemented (a nice shader that makes every texture without light black), there´s no 3rd party tool that can help 

IMO they should do for that exploit something. Very failure if final product has nightime which is just go in settings and boom nightvision toggled.

Like in the Rust, they done the exploiting useless there. You can exploit but its not worth of it because advantage is not huge. 

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44 minutes ago, General Zod said:

But gamma exploit isn't a big enough problem to go to that lengths. They won't invest time and money to get a 3rd party engine to scan for a software that can modify your gamma settings. It's a game breaking cheat. And you are still ignoring what I said about lack luster in game mechanics. 

I didn't ignore anything, i just commented on hardware.

 

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On 1/16/2017 at 4:36 AM, General Zod said:

That is never going to happen. Anti cheat is anti cheat. Not something to search your entire PC for files and gamma settings. Like I said, don't go after a fly with a bazooka. We need to start with mechanics, you can hold a pistol and a flash light at the same time real life, let's add that to the game so we don't have to rely on pistil flash light alone. Gamma is a different type of exploit, it's not something like copying items or hiding in the walls it's more of a compensation for lack of mechanics to make playing at night more fun. I can't shine a flash light on a compass or on a map, stars can't be used for directions. People don't crank up the gamma just so they can KoS in the dark. 

 

@CJFlint Oh night and maybe even thermal vision will be in this game don't wory about that. 

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you here, as much of what you are saying is bullshit.  I have been using the stars to navigate ever since I started playing.  People absolutely DO crank up gamma just so they can KOS in dark.  Do you have a legitimate vision issue relevant to gamma, or are you just disingenuous in your motives to defend gamma-boosting?

That being said, I adjust my gamma daily, depending on the level of ambient light in my living room.  What the problem is with gamma cranking exploit, is that it gives you more contrast and depth of field than it should at night.  There is no question that it needs to be fixed to prevent forcing everyone to max it out to avoid being disadvantaged.

@CJFlint They already have the effect of night vision implemented into the game.  A good way to recognize this is at dawn and dusk, when the sky becomes many times brighter than the forests.  Just look into a treeline from 100-200 meters away, and make sure that your screen is showing half sky, and half land.
Now adjust your view until the horizon is just barely above your FOV.  You should be able to see into the treeline with relative ease. I don't know if the game simulates your pupils contracting and dilating, or if this just happens because  of screen brightness, but it is a thing.

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1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you here, as much of what you are saying is bullshit.  I have been using the stars to navigate ever since I started playing.  People absolutely DO crank up gamma just so they can KOS in dark.  Do you have a legitimate vision issue relevant to gamma, or are you just disingenuous in your motives to defend gamma-boosting?

That being said, I adjust my gamma daily, depending on the level of ambient light in my living room.  What the problem is with gamma cranking exploit, is that it gives you more contrast and depth of field than it should at night.  There is no question that it needs to be fixed to prevent forcing everyone to max it out to avoid being disadvantaged.

 

I said people don't crank up gamma only to KoS, some do some don't.

I don't even currently play DayZ so neither.

So the only BS is the star navigation. 

And yes we need gamma adjustment, and yes it can be exploited, just like reducing draw distance can remove bushes and expose a player who would be hidden otherwise. There is a tonne of things that can be exploited. That doesn't warrant removing those things or running some intrusive software to keep us playing nicely. And it's a trend with people here, add some means to prevent TS by either scanning my PC for TS process or always on microphone. Add penalties for those who don't want hero. Etc etc. 

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