Impossible To Have Fun Anymore

[philbur 476]

Interesting bunch of views, guys...

I am also one of those Survivors that would like to see a much larger Chenarus (especially if the heli and aircraft become a reality) but even if they do not expand it...I hope the Modding community will come up with a few epic maps just like in the Mod days.

I am also still hoping that the current running pace is dramatically reduced or nerfed to a point where it involves yet another choice for the player....like the introduction of a stamina modifier (something I seem to recall the devs talking about).

And...the ultimate deal-breaker for me is still the final result of weapon balance and ammo availability.... If military weapons become scarce, and military-specific ammunition becomes rare then I am positive there will be a massive shift in the player base (towards what I think was always the original target audience in the first place).

[exwoll 252]

23 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

- Encountering another player or engaging an infected with a firearm should not simply be a matter of "Can I kill this target", the availability of supplies should cause you to have to seriously consider if a lethal engagement is worth the amount of ammo you will expend.
 

Brian, what are the plans to tweak this side of the equation?

Because as it was mentioned before, at the moment this is far from being present. Weapons and ammo are really common (yesterday f.e. I spawned in Prigorodki and in 30min I found 2 makarovs, 1 beringer , a shotgun, and like 150 different rounds in my travel from there to Pusta , two very small towns that aren't supposed to have anything!)

Adding to what @philbur said, I think that the tweaking is needed for ALL weapons. Some things I  can think of right now:

• the addition of a random variable to the state of the weapons that spawn around the map,
• adding a hierarchy and subsequent "rarity" factor to them (pristine weapons should be very rare f.e.),
• Increasing weapons decay if they are soaked because of some rain, swimming, or storage in wet containers (barrels, open tents, wet backpacks, etc). 
• Reducing A LOT the number of rounds one can find around (similar to the winchester rounds) from 20-40 to small numbers <10, and making the spawn points more random and scarcer

And I'm talking from a mostly civil survivor pov, that barely uses military grade weapons. I can have a whole arsenal of rifles, pistols and ammo in a couple of hours of playing. Don't even need machine guns and granades lol

P.S. The situation of the Winchester rounds is really interesting atm. They are really scarce, and have been the ground for a lot of interactions I had in the game (trading, searching for them, like a topic of conversation)

 

Edited November 2, 2016 by exwoll

[philbur 476]

6 hours ago, exwoll said:

P.S. The situation of the Winchester rounds is really interesting atm. They are really scarce, and have been the ground for a lot of interactions I had in the game (trading, searching for them, like a topic of conversation)

Yep....

Exactly a good example of how the rarity of ammo can lead survivors to change the way they play! Anything the devs do to help create situations where player interaction/trading is encouraged is a big step in the right direction.

On the weapon degradation thing, though....don't forget that a lot of the military-grade stuff is really well designed to handle adverse conditions and still do their job. Having a weapon cleaning kit means (in real life, at least) that you not only clean the carbon out but you also apply a liberal coat of oil to the exposed parts as well, which leaves them pretty happy regardless of the weather. I think this would balance out very well because having a very limited amount of robust, reliable mil-spec firepower versus a greater availability of civilian rifles and pistols that jam more frequently and degrade easily would make perfect sense, realistically and practically.

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 31/10/2016 at 6:11 PM, General Zod said:

@exwoll

Yes the game lacks survival mechanics. There is nothing to struggle against environment wise. What the game doesn't lack is an outrageous amount of military grade weapon and ammunition to load it with. So people get to choose between non existing struggle to survive, and try to kill time in some other passive way, or just start killing each other for at least some amusement. 

But that shouldn't be worked around by unrealistic bullet damage. And given how we get 2 patches per year now, people get bored. And the most interesting thing dayz has to offer for most of the players is, hunting down other players. 

The most interesting thing in ANY online game is the other players - That's why a game is online, NO other reason... am I right?  or am I right?

[Noctoras 409]

7 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

The most interesting thing in ANY online game is the other players - That's why a game is online, NO other reason... am I right?  or am I right?

You are right. But noone asks for other players to be taken out of the equation. But there is tons of games having ONLY other players as a challenge. Arma, Battlefield, CoD being amongst the most prominent.

DayZ was supposed to stand out by being MORE than just another shooter, it was to be a survival and sandbox game.

In my opinion

- a survival game offers MORE to fight against than guns (difference to a shooter), e.g. environment, sickness and so on

- interaction in a survival game should not only be focussed on shooting each other. Here we are back to other players being the most important thing. Yes, they are. But a survival game should offer incentives to team up as well, to interact in different ways. With the current ridiculous amount of weapons and no other challenged, the game forces you to kill each other for the sheer boredom and lack of challenge

- a sandbox game should rather be along the lines "do whatever whereever you want". Current development is trying to make run everyone towards NW to shoot each other again. The concentration of most loot, all heli crashes, new tisy and more in the North West is basically directly opposing the sandbox concept and promoting the last man standing / king of the hill / team death match concept, however you prefer calling it.

[Nebulae3 420]

I agree that weapon/zombie damage should be adjusted on items - right now one hit from a zombie can break your weapon - it happen to me earlier some days ago - it went from prestine to badly damage, but I had a weapon cleaner. 

[pilgrim* 3513]

19 hours ago, Noctoras said:

You are right. But noone asks for other players to be taken out of the equation. But there is tons of games having ONLY other players as a challenge. Arma, Battlefield, CoD being amongst the most prominent.

DayZ was supposed to stand out by being MORE than just another shooter, it was to be a survival and sandbox game.

In my opinion

- a survival game offers MORE to fight against than guns (difference to a shooter), e.g. environment, sickness and so on

- interaction in a survival game should not only be focussed on shooting each other. Here we are back to other players being the most important thing. Yes, they are. But a survival game should offer incentives to team up as well, to interact in different ways. With the current ridiculous amount of weapons and no other challenged, the game forces you to kill each other for the sheer boredom and lack of challenge

- a sandbox game should rather be along the lines "do whatever whereever you want". Current development is trying to make run everyone towards NW to shoot each other again. The concentration of most loot, all heli crashes, new tisy and more in the North West is basically directly opposing the sandbox concept and promoting the last man standing / king of the hill / team death match concept, however you prefer calling it.

I agree with that  !!

I was also saying that you can't have long lasting "realistic" gear - like eg a backpack with 2 bullet holes that lasts you 5 years of play - If you do there is no incentive to find survival loot or make your own gear because everything lasts for 'months', so that would take the constant stress of continuous "survival" out of the game.  - AND there is even MORE incentive to shoot someone else and take their gear.. it won't be damaged.

There is still 100% the problem of "public" kick servers. And the problem that you can store 300 AKs in your tents and barrels, and they go right on spawning on the server at the same rate as ever, because they are "stored and carried" - that gear is not counted in the spawn rate. BI has abandoned the kick server exploit problem and will not / and can not/ do anything about those. But it has complete control over it's own uber-server, and can change the spawn rules as it likes.

But finally - bottom line -  I think BI has an ARmA attitude built-in from way back. I think they cant help it?  (even subconscious?).. OK they put in some (to be fair) clumsy and unrealistic boar AI and some deer .< no one consulted any survival experts or manuals, only weapons experts and arms collections>.. But there is a BOW you can make from a STICK plus some string (and wow it actually works, slightly!) .. and snares, and even a Very Very simple fishing-game -for-kids  too!) .. So that's sorted out the backwoods survivalists - Now lets get back to adding dozens or hundreds of Realistic Famous WEAPON Types and Variants so people can shoot each other in MANY ways, and learn their calibers by heart like in the REAL world, and firefight wearing our extensive mix-and-match Uniforms-of-the-World collection.

They are dealing with a mass market (and "mass" and "average player" and "standard" are kind of similar ideas, right?)  ..no insult intended - kids buy FPS - they grew up with it.. So BI fall back on what they know, bit by bit.. can't blame them - but the Original CENTRAL IDEA of  the game that made it very unusual and ACTUALLY 100% << dangerous >>  has ...  .. faded away,

xxP

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by pilgrim*

[Noctoras 409]

interesting post, Pilgrim.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Noctoras

[Volcanogod 28]

2 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

 OK they put in some (to be fair) clumsy and unrealistic boar AI and some deer .< no one consulted any survival experts or manuals, only weapons experts and arms collections>.. But there is a BOW you can make from a STICK plus some string (and wow it actually works, slightly!) .. and snares, and even a Very Very simple fishing-game -for-kids  too!) .. So that's sorted out the backwoods survivalists - Now lets get back to adding dozens or hundreds of Realistic Famous WEAPON Types and Variants so people can shoot each other in MANY ways, and learn their calibers by heart like in the REAL world, and firefight wearing our extensive mix-and-match Uniforms-of-the-World collection.

 

I distinctly remember Hicks himself talking about BI hiring a team that developed a popular hunting game to work exclusively on Animal AI.

 You also lament on the lack of survival elements, you have a very extensive post history i would assume you have been keeping to date with all the developer Q&A's, tweets, trello, hicks talking at cons ect. He has covered plenty of these things more then one time, maybe you have trouble finding this information or you have cared not to research it. Either way you should allay your fears that this is going to be an arcade shooter with some survival minigames sprinkled in.

 

[Camaban 9]

Opening poster tl;dr.

 

'I wants to get geared ups in half an hour on da coast, den goes and kill newbs on da coast a steal there loot!!!!11!!!!'

[exwoll 252]

8 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

I agree with that  !!

I was also saying that you can't have long lasting "realistic" gear - like eg a backpack with 2 bullet holes that lasts you 5 years of play - If you do there is no incentive to find survival loot or make your own gear because everything lasts for 'months', so that would take the constant stress of continuous "survival" out of the game.  - AND there is even MORE incentive to shoot someone else and take their gear.. it won't be damaged.

There is still 100% the problem of "public" kick servers. And the problem that you can store 300 AKs in your tents and barrels, and they go right on spawning on the server at the same rate as ever, because they are "stored and carried" - that gear is not counted in the spawn rate. BI has abandoned the kick server exploit problem and will not / and can not/ do anything about those. But it has complete control over it's own uber-server, and can change the spawn rules as it likes.

But finally - bottom line -  I think BI has an ARmA attitude built-in from way back. I think they cant help it?  (even subconscious?).. OK they put in some (to be fair) clumsy and unrealistic boar AI and some deer .< no one consulted any survival experts or manuals, only weapons experts and arms collections>.. But there is a BOW you can make from a STICK plus some string (and wow it actually works, slightly!) .. and snares, and even a Very Very simple fishing-game -for-kids  too!) .. So that's sorted out the backwoods survivalists - Now lets get back to adding dozens or hundreds of Realistic Famous WEAPON Types and Variants so people can shoot each other in MANY ways, and learn their calibers by heart like in the REAL world, and firefight wearing our extensive mix-and-match Uniforms-of-the-World collection.

They are dealing with a mass market (and "mass" and "average player" and "standard" are kind of similar ideas, right?)  ..no insult intended - kids buy FPS - they grew up with it.. So BI fall back on what they know, bit by bit.. can't blame them - but the Original CENTRAL IDEA of  the game that made it very unusual and ACTUALLY 100% << dangerous >>  has ...  .. faded away,

xxP

 

Well, to be fair to them, they still have a chance after finishing the development of the big engine chunks (audio and player controller), which are taking all their efforts at the moment.

I also remember reading somewhere that they hired some dude from a hunting game to help them with the AI, but I guess he only consulted them about a couple of issues and then left, cause I didn't heard about him again. Also there are a lot of non-hunting games with great animal AI ,maybe hire one of the s.t.a.l.k.e.r. animal AI developers, they were Ukrainians, so doubt they will charge a lot, or directly buy their AI lol.

Going back to what I was starting with: They have been adding weapons and sounds because thats the only thing they can do while the engines are being developed. Weapons area already available from Arma 2 and 3, they just import the models and  adapt the for the game, the same with other items. Plus they have a design team (or subcontractors) that can do some textures while we all wait.

If somebody has any info regarding the coding they use for the in-game status effects and other features, it would be great to read about it and get an insight to that little factor. Because at the moment I just can't see why they aren't making progress with those, since at first glance they don't have any compatibility issue with any of the new or old engines, they are supposedly an autonomous part of the game.

Anyway all this negative blunter might just be the result of a short night and a cold rainy morning here, we're still 40 versions away from the release (thats slightly less than half the road) so BI have (hope not a lot lol) time to implement all the features and changes that would differentiate this game from any other shooter (and survivalMMO) out in the market. (this way I will not have to waste more money on them lol).

Edited November 3, 2016 by exwoll

[pilgrim* 3513]

On 03/11/2016 at 8:03 AM, Volcanogod said:

I distinctly remember Hicks himself talking about BI hiring a team that developed a popular hunting game to work exclusively on Animal AI.

 You also lament on the lack of survival elements, you have a very extensive post history i would assume you have been keeping to date with all the developer Q&A's, tweets, trello, hicks talking at cons ect. He has covered plenty of these things more then one time, maybe you have trouble finding this information or you have cared not to research it. Either way you should allay your fears that this is going to be an arcade shooter with some survival minigames sprinkled in.

 

Yes - I started when the mod came out, then I was reading THIS forum for a year or so before I got round to signing in.. so , yep, from the start, I guess.. and I REMEMBER most of the arguments and the posts I read, and the updates.. I don't have to "research it" - But IF YOU LIKE, check back and find when people first began noticing/commenting how the number of TREES was being reduced (that's just a little EASY one to check if you are up to speed). OK - end of tit for tat. Who cares about trees, it was just a random example. Let's be friends about this, even, if we disagree. 

DESIGN-LEADERSHIP

My take is this - and I mean NO insult or harm to anyone - this is Only a point of view :=  Hicks is central in a development team and he has a different personality to  "whoever was  the  previous key developer". To exaggerate -  this is the difference between "doing a good organizational job" and "following a crazy brilliant vision"  - My point is that for DayZ to stand out you have to have both. That's difficult. Does anyone reading this think maybe it is impossible ? (just wondering)

I am ALSO not insulting any teams of designers or programmers - ok? - For instance Zombies used to play a BIG ROLE in the original game, now they DONT - is that the fault of the graphic artists or of the coders?.. Nope..  
There are some good looking wild animals in DayZ that act in a  - er -  "reasonably interesting" manner - does that mean DAyZ is a hunting game?.. NOPE it don't.

GAME DESIGN

It would take a great deal of game DESIGN to put any kind of half-realistic hunting into DayZ.. and the graphic artists and the programmers do NOT DO game design, - in fact they ONLY DO what they are told to do by the game designers (as much as they can). Same for the Zombies - Do you think they are NOT important in the game anymore because the artists and programmers had a meeting and decided zombies were boring?  NOPE..

So yes - I have noticed WHO, and WHY, and WHAT WAS SAID.  I notice a LOT.  And I have also noticed what was LEFT UNSAID..  and I even noticed when it was DELIBERATELY left unsaid, (And sometimes the conversation never took place, and some statements were glossed over, and sometimes the threads on this forum were closed, etc etc ).

BI are fair and open compared to nearly ALL other games developers, BUT they would SELL better if they PAID a PR team to add some PRO SPIN and use flash glossy ads to paper the cracks. (there are cracks).

 

PUBLIC RELATIONS

I have made many comments of my own, in 5 years, and I'm not dumb, I KNOW plenty of folk disagree, or only half agree, or think Im 1000% worthless, But I have a good grip on what HAS happened and what has NOT..  what is said, and what is left unsaid, and what is crossed out on purpose, If you read the forums closely you will SPOT the things that are NOT mentioned.

Yo !! - Volcanogod  - have you TRIED hunting as an activity in DayZ?  -  You will quickly learn the strengths and weaknesses of that part of the game..

Hunting the way it is done in DayZ, is written by "the Expert Hunting Game Team"?? -  Really? -  So go find THAT game THOSE Experts wrote, and compare it to hunting in DayZ - Ask yourself, "If this is the same TEAM doing this stuff, how come it is so different in DayZ??   Strange hu?

Must be something to do with Design Decision?

 

DIRECTION - MONETIZATION - TARGETING

This is just my take on development  - on the REAL Design Decisions (and problems)  not on the <<except for some bugs everything is better than expected>> quotes.

I mean where the game is in fact GOING .. No axe to grind and no offence to anyone. 

xxxP

[sneakydude 480]

On 10/31/2016 at 10:32 PM, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

So much of this.

Just because the feature poor alpha was capable of being played in a way you found fun does not mean the Beta>Complete versions will be anything you will enjoy later.

It's like any bad relationship with a poor foundation.

At some point the versions of reality clash, and both parties find themselves parting ways due to irreconcilable differences.

That said, modding will make all the instant gratification versions the "kids" want (sorry not sorry).

 

Ah but you forgotten one thing, The game was evolving from a "point" then was changed. So in fact it was his game, just it was changed on him before he had a chance to change his <back> button on purchase.

So if i told you pvp, survival, and hardcore mechanics where apart of it, then i introduce no - pvp, no survival, and software core mechanics.

 

The big problem i have been finding with EA games is no clear rules for purchase, no clear rules for changes a simple note on the wall (Things may change at any time) is not a good enough thing to sell EA games on.

SO i guess what needs to change is, you have to have a mandate spelled in blood on the steam early purchase rules, that you clearly have intended for buyers. Just don't simply click pay now!!

When i sell you a vacuum i sell you something that sucks up dirt etc.. but when i sell you a piece of software, it plays a game but at no time can i ever guarantee it will ever not change its shape and how it picks up dirt.

I honestly vote for changes to steam EA rules.

This has nothing to do with BI, or any other company in general, but EA in general. This is why a clear, set of exactly what this game will become in the end will look like is what you should pay for. It would save Hicks and so many other countless other Leads so much time explaining what is changing day or night with the game.

This is why modding is something we have to have no a days to save both sides the problems. So i do have to agree this is all this OP has to go on.

 

The only thing that us modders do not know, is what tools, what core mechanics are staying in, and what core mechanics will be able to be checked off and on like Gear destruction 0-1 or a %

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I couldn't agree more Solopopo. But, sadly it seems like the majority of regular players have grown to love this meta game of searching the same places over and over for luxury loot. I guess at the end of the day it is a video game, so people feel like there has to be a never ending grind involved.

 

Could you imagine watching a television show like The Walking Dead where they spend multiple episodes just looking for a firearm or backpack? Do you think they would be quick to take on new group members? No, they would simply kill them and take their stuff, much like the way DayZ now plays out.

 

I spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours playing the DayZ mod but I have put less than 300 hours into the standalone. It's sad to see a game with such great potential being driven into the ground by the "maybe this isn't the game for you" mentality. You'd think we were asking for hit markers and no friendly fire or something, when really we just want more toys in the sandbox.

 

In my opinion, DayZ standalone has become a game that is no longer about the actions and interactions of the survivors, it's turned into a game where looting isn't just a nice bonus, it's the entire motivation for playing.

 

Look, I don't want to see everything become so plentiful that surviving is no longer a factor. But, a great example is military bases. Why can't there be basic weapons stockpiled in a place like that? Is the existence of 50-100 basic weapons sitting in a military base going to ruin the entire game? Why is it favorable to have a manageable amount of loot? Why do we want a game where picking up everything in a military base and dumping it in the bushes is so easy to do? Why do we want a scenario where you can take the risk of going into a military base and come away empty handed? At the end of the day, you're only 1 person, you can only fire 1 gun at a time, you can only wear one outfit at a time, so why the hell are these single serving items so damn hard to find? Beans and bullets? Sure, they can be rare, but currently they're not, the game is the complete opposite, we can run around for an hour and find all sorts of food, drinks and ammo, so I don't understand this idea that scarcity is making it harder to survive. Hunting and fishing is like a side quest that nobody ever has to do because a freaking apple tree beside a well will keep you alive forever. Or your quest to find a gun will have you looking at so many cans of food and drink you end up leaving most of them behind before ever finding a decent gun.

 

On 10/31/2016 at 9:42 PM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

- You should struggle to survive, meaning there should in many situations not be enough supplies to go around through just traditional looting,
- Methods such as horticulture, foraging for berries and apples, fishing, hunting, trapping are all vital areas to the survival puzzle
- Encountering another player or engaging an infected with a firearm should not simply be a matter of "Can I kill this target", the availability of supplies should cause you to have to seriously consider if a lethal engagement is worth the amount of ammo you will expend..

 

-There are plenty of survival supplies to go around, it's the single serving luxury gear(guns, tools, clothing) that's rare and hoarded.

-Horticulture, foraging, fishing, hunting, trapping are nice additions, but they become pointless wastes of time when we run across so many canned food/drinks and wells.

-That makes no sense to me. If I have such little stuff that I am counting every bullet, why would I ever hunt an animal or kill a zombie? Every bullet is going to put into the head of an unsuspecting survivor, in the hopes that it could bring me more loot.

Edited November 4, 2016 by bad_mojo (DayZ)

[buuky 24]

On 11/4/2016 at 6:32 PM, bad_mojo (DayZ) said:

-Horticulture, foraging, fishing, hunting, trapping are nice additions, but they become pointless wastes of time when we run across so many canned food/drinks and wells.

 

Yes, right up until the Central Loot Economy gets eventually adjusted in a way that canned food spawns become very rare. And then you might actually consider using your ten rounds to hunt some deer instead of other players unless you play as a cannibal ;)

[exwoll 252]

57 minutes ago, buuky said:

Yes, right up until the Central Loot Economy gets eventually adjusted in a way that canned food spawns become very rare. And then you might actually consider using your ten rounds to hunt some deer instead of other players unless you play as a cannibal ;)

Almost became a cannibal in exp the other day. Was freaking impossible to find any food when I spawned in Cherno, nor did I managed to find an apple tree lol. Was with starving status when heard some shots, and decided to die with honor and put to good use my 3 makarov rounds. Was on my way to try to hunt the player (was really desperate) but found 2 chickens on the way, so they calmed my hunger enough to get out of the city and find some apples 10min after :D.

I must say that it was great to be in that situation :3 

[KingOfTime 267]

This exp build is the first time that I have had trouble surviving since the mod days, when it seemed I was constantly searching for food. Guns are plentiful, ammo not so much. If it wasnt for the unfortunate souls I came upon chilling in their tent my friend and I would be dead of hypothermia. This build finally reinforces my original hopes that this game will be a difficult survival experience, and not the pvp-max loot-no infected-eat once a day arma clone that the mass audience seems to want. I was attracted to the mod, as many others were, because of the reputation Dayz built up as the "anti-game", a brutal experience that requires you to play by its rules, instead of running and gunning over and over again. I may have severely rose tinted glasses when it comes to the mod, but I remember starting out as a fresh spawn and dying more often than not before getting established.... and then getting shot from who knows where in the middle of the woods. When every trip to a high loot location meant dodging snipers and hoping you had enough food for the journey, so you didnt have to risk stopping in a town. I remember being forced to navigate purely through the woods, because roads were a death sentence. I remember having mercy on a guy in elektro because he had just...all the zombies chasing him. Then again, maybe I just sucked at the mod.

[Volcanogod 28]

 

On 11/4/2016 at 4:49 AM, pilgrim* said:

Wall of text.

 

Read through and i agree we shouldn't have any ill feelings over disagreeing.

 

I guess the core feeling i want to express in my posts is that things are shaping up better then ever, .61 has really pushed more interesting pve elements to the foreground and the game is evolving towards the hardcore survival that i believe you also wish the game to become.

With the latest videos and status reports, new members to the PR team (Baty) ect, it seems that BI is taking PR more seriously then it was. I would imagine that PR is going to only keep getting better.

You mentioned the infected taking a backseat and not being prominent in game. Have you had a chance to play the latest build on experimental if you have and you still feel the same way what is it you want out of the infected as pve?

Yea i have hunted, but lets be honest its nowhere near a complete package yet, essentially none of it is "Done". Just like with many aspects of DayZ development i am reserving my harshest judgment until the developers themselves tell us that "Feature X is complete".

You mention several times throughout your post about things left unsaid, either state these unsaid things or leave them out of your post cause they add nothing to it other then unsubstantiated claims about who knows what. It weakens any argument you are trying to form and frankly seems like you have more of an axe to grind with someone or something.

What is your vision of a complete Dayz, how would you explain your Day 0 of survival in Dayz 1.0, what about day 10 or 30. What would drive you to keep playing what is it you want? 

Oh yea, .62 the forests are looking to get an overhaul.

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Volcanogod

[GeneralDrift147 0]

Reading this I kind of feel this is more to do with the end user then "the game" in reference which for all intents and purposes isn't even in Beta yet. I know people who have been married for several years and tell me sex isn't fun anymore. Take a break, find a sport or something and come back to DayZ at later date. - Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

[sneakydude 480]

5 hours ago, GeneralDrift147 said:

Reading this I kind of feel this is more to do with the end user then "the game" in reference which for all intents and purposes isn't even in Beta yet. I know people who have been married for several years and tell me sex isn't fun anymore. Take a break, find a sport or something and come back to DayZ at later date. - Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

AH yes, but i also known  many people to get a divorce too, meaning they completely walked away. And by hearing all the USA women single now, seems to be a all time high, i can only imagine what it is like in europe.

[Noctoras 409]

20 hours ago, Volcanogod said:

I guess the core feeling i want to express in my posts is that things are shaping up better then ever, .61 has really pushed more interesting pve elements to the foreground and the game is evolving towards the hardcore survival that i believe you also wish the game to become.

With the latest videos and status reports, new members to the PR team (Baty) ect, it seems that BI is taking PR more seriously then it was. I would imagine that PR is going to only keep getting better.

You mentioned the infected taking a backseat and not being prominent in game. Have you had a chance to play the latest build on experimental if you have and you still feel the same way what is it you want out of the infected as pve?

Yea i have hunted, but lets be honest its nowhere near a complete package yet, essentially none of it is "Done". Just like with many aspects of DayZ development i am reserving my harshest judgment until the developers themselves tell us that "Feature X is complete".

You mention several times throughout your post about things left unsaid, either state these unsaid things or leave them out of your post cause they add nothing to it other then unsubstantiated claims about who knows what. It weakens any argument you are trying to form and frankly seems like you have more of an axe to grind with someone or something.

What is your vision of a complete Dayz, how would you explain your Day 0 of survival in Dayz 1.0, what about day 10 or 30. What would drive you to keep playing what is it you want? 

Oh yea, .62 the forests are looking to get an overhaul.

 

 

I know I am not the person adressed with this post, yet, given the new status report and the basic roadmap on what there is to come (and more important it basically says what is NOT to come), I think I want to elaborate on PvP / PvE as well, I hope this is okay.

As I just posted under the status report, I think they are neglecting the survival aspect and are not that interested in it. Hicks comes from Arma, so that might explain why under him the game revolves around guns ("havin no gun is boring") and has little room for other stuff. As the status report touched what's still to come, I think I can state that I am disheartened / disappointed to some extent. Electricity could be used in a civil way, but I see much of it going into base defence etc. Other than that the "feature backlog" is related to Pew Pew directly or indirectly.

The neglect shows best in the medical system, which is incredibly barren, yet would hold lots of potential. Food and drink as well as the char system (in the way it is implemented) look like wasted opportunities as well. I mean, character skills will allow you to do some things quicker, but not have unique skills? Books are just junk items ... instead of making them items for the acquisition of skills or give them another purpose. Sometimes it looks like Dean had plans for a survival game and with Hicks taking over, guns, guns and more guns and vehicles seemed to get priority. Of course that also has its merits and there is the Arma audience for it, but it's not what I would call a good survival game.

Not even the sandbox aspect remains. Loot is reshuffled in a way that everyone is lured to the North West PvP arena (encompassing NWAF, Myshkino, Tisy, Heli crashes). So it's no more the "roam whereever you want to roam and do what you want to do" .... rather "you can go wherever you want, but if you want to have decent stuff, go north west). Sort of a king-of-the-NW concept without explicitly restricting the area to the North West.

As for the zombies, they are shaping out quite well and  Iappreciate that, giving the game more of a challenge. Together with wolves I really can see that getting to a good point, albeit I wish a lone zed would also roam the woods every once in a while. It just doesn't feel right that a city limit is a zombie cage. (I know, there is wolves, but this doesn't make the point void). Yet the zombie situation might well come out good. The graphics are no doubt the strong side of the game and they will sure be helpful for the immersion.

The game might just not exactly be my cup of tea, as it will not be a survival game most likely. It has its audience and its reason to exist. Yet it is an example on why to be careful with buying early access. You do not know what you get. you might buy into a survival sandbox game and wake up with a PvP shooter. Noone is forced to buy into early acces. Me neither. I had my hours of fun. I want no refund. I do not bash the devs as such. Yet I feel entitled to state my personal opinion on the game's development.

The last sentence being very personal and subjective: If I want a mere PvP shooter, I don't want to jog and gear fo 45 minutes before I can have my first shot. That's not immersive for me, but a waste of time - thus I currently play BF1 to get this part of me satisfied. If I want a survival game, I want more than an alibi sickness and medical system, unique skills instead of everyone being a master sniper, medic and car mechanic and more challenges in the food/drink sector. You can easily add to that list.

 

Sorry for the long rand and please noone take it personally. I will try not to post that much on the topic in the future, since I know that I have posted it more than once. Just felt I wanted to summarize it now that the status report has given an outlook on what there is to come yet.

 

Best regards and safe travels

 

[exwoll 252]

7 hours ago, Noctoras said:

 

I know I am not the person adressed with this post, yet, given the new status report and the basic roadmap on what there is to come (and more important it basically says what is NOT to come), I think I want to elaborate on PvP / PvE as well, I hope this is okay., etc

 

I understand that feeling. But I wouldn't get frustrated with them at this point. 

The aspects you mentioned (skills, health system, etc) can be put into what Hicks mentioned as a blurry "enormous backlog" of things that should'd been implemented a long time ago, in their last status report. I believe that's the easy/fast part of the development, and all the "modded" stand alone versions out there have been messing with this for years, achieving cool things even with the legacy stuff they managed to "find".

As the devs many times stated: The Audio,Video and Animation engines are bottlenecking the development of the game (and they're pretty conscious about the fact they made a though decision rewriting it) since a lot of the things they need to put into the game are tied to them and writing any code without getting them finished first would be a waste of time (a thing they don't have, if we were to believe with their tight schedule to move the game for beta in .62-.63).

Apart from that, they'd stated (also several times) that they can't implement all the PVE aspects they would like to due the demand they're seeing from pvp people, so they'll try to make a "balanced" vanilla experience. I remember in one of the QnA videos (I believe with the lead designer), they stated that they have a lot of hopes in the modding community to develp the PVE aspects they're unable to put in there.

This can be confirmed by some admins from different Dayz communities (DUG, Asylum, DayzRP) that have been working with the devs since the beginning, and share with them that vision we have here about a hardcore unforgiving survival experience. And are really eager to see some of that coming for their servers to implement asap :).

 

P.S. It would be great to read more about your civil uses for electricity, and other PVE things you have in mind. I believe that it would be good to have them in a suggestion. I've seen Hicks around there a couple of times, so they're still reading them, and even if they don't implement it, future modders will probably read it and use in their mods :D

Edited November 13, 2016 by exwoll

[Noctoras 409]

1 hour ago, exwoll said:

The aspects you mentioned (skills, health system, etc) can be put into what Hicks mentioned as a blurry "enormous backlog" of things that should'd been implemented a long time ago, in their last status report. I believe that's the easy/fast part of the development, and all the "modded" stand alone versions out there have been messing with this for years, achieving cool things even with the legacy stuff they managed to "find".

As the devs many times stated: The Audio,Video and Animation engines are bottlenecking the development of the game

 

Well, they have been roughly stating what is to come in this week's status report. This includes base building, electricity, character life span, new vehicles and - god help it - even more guns. That's what got me disheartened at that point and thus I quit believing in a major rework of survival aspects.

[Sqeezorz 839]

More weapons are also called more magazines and maybe even a new type of ammunition, but this also means that it will be harder to have a complete weapon.
If the amount of all weapons on the server remains the same, this results in even more survival effect.

I'm not the big fan of even more weapons, but if it is against this in order to make it harder then I see a meaning in it.
Just think of the antitankweapon, finding this will surely not be an easy thing, and not to mention the ammunition.

Well, it will be possible in the final game that wearing a super weapon can make your own life more difficult, if you have, what all want, you will be the target.

[ShaneRetter 20]

3 hours ago, exwoll said:

Apart from that, they'd stated (also several times) that they can't implement all the PVE aspects they would like to due the demand they're seeing from pvp people, so they'll try to make a "balanced" vanilla experience. I remember in one of the QnA videos (I believe with the lead designer), they stated that they have a lot of hopes in the modding community to develp the PVE aspects they're unable to put in there.

This is my vision as well. Don't get too hung up on the vanilla features, as they have to make it a happy medium for all. Mod creators will fill the needs for those at both extremes (pvp, and pve). As long as the base features are there, they will be at the very least 'tweaked' for modded servers, and even new features all together will be added by modders. Once the team officially releases their plans for modding, the community should relax a little if things in the vanilla are not quite to their specific personal taste.