A Few Thoughts On.. (Communication, Deadlines, etc)

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Recently I've noticed some discussion and confusion centered around our Communication Process. Now, I'd spoken on this in previous Status Reports - but it looks like it might be in everyone's best interest for me to go over this again.
We made some changes to said process a few months back, starting with handing over responsibility for our Status Reports to Dhawkz, our new Brand Manager. I'm pleased to say that has been very fruitful for us, and we've had the Status Reports out on schedule without issue for quite some time now.

That specifically is not what I was intending to think out loud about today, so let me get back on topic. We have two people full time on community and external communication, and part time each of the leads contribute to it as well.

- SMoss (Community Manager)
- Dhawkz (Brand Manager)

Past the staffing responsibility we have 3 main methods of sharing external development information.

- Status Reports (Biweekly - Tuesdays (Anytime on Tuesday)
- Trello (No schedule, as assets are available to show)
- DayZDevTeam Youtube (No schedule, we show things that are ready to be shown (Dev Logs), and we are trying out developer Q&A videos - Design coming soon!)

In general you can see a theme above. As development is fluid, it can be hard to predict with certain accuracy exactly when a specific system, tech, or feature will be playable or even showable. We can give our goals, or even our estimates - but we'll always end up upsetting at least one side of the crowd. Not to mention the fact that showing things while in development that aren't *on the docket* for the very next stable release only tends to end up causing confusion - and in some rare cases, frustration. Often you can end up with a render, preview animation, or prototype system that is dependant upon significantly more moving parts to be playable or even testable - and that tends not to trickle out through all human/organic communication channels of mouth to mouth. So moving forward we've been following a principle of only showing things in our YouTube channel that are coming up in the next stable build. 
We've allowed for more loose communication style with the Status Reports - as they can tend to be very text heavy and dry, the developers can take some liberty to talk about more long term goals and tasks. In addition, our recent change in how we communicate "deadlines, goals, and targets" will bring milestone review briefs to the Status Reports - starting with .61 development.
Our Trello is very irregular, and I'd like to improve that - I just need to figure out how to combat people misunderstanding a model preview for something that is ready to be in game, or even will be soon. ;)

When it comes to "dates" - well, as I've said a few times before - We're just not doing that with our communication any more. Things come up, dates end up getting pushed, and we end up with both developers and early access users frustrated. So, we're taking a different approach - one that gives a bit more transparency into what systems / changes are targeted for a given stable update, what the progress is towards said build, and what got pushed and why. We have our firm date for Status Reports, and the guideline of "when its ready" for showing things on our YouTube channel - paired with the above mentioned milestone reviews in Status Reports - I think for those that are interested in following DayZ development towards its 1.0 release, there is a lot of information to be had.

I'm sure this rambling post will upset some, maybe please some others - but I thought it needed to be said, and if I didn't care - I wouldn't be here writing it :)

See you all out there in Chernarus!

[gaweu 42]

But see You more like today or more like next week in .60? :) 

But to be serious now just dont care too much about people who tend to whine all the time that stuff is delayed etc.. You should be even more happy if there is more whine because if game is so "bad and terrible" and there is still so many people that just cant wait till release of new stuff that mean You doing very good job :)

 

EDIT:

I should say that if there is still so many people that whine, bi*ch and cry and they are still checking reddit/forums for update on 0.60 every hour or so that mean You doing great job :)  

Edited April 20, 2016 by gaweu

[St. Jimmy 1631]

So moving forward we've been following a principle of only showing things in our YouTube channel that are coming up in the next stable build.

I believe this is a good move.

[TLaJuggz 2]

Its unfortunate that the general public is so fragile and confused. I swear, the human race hasn't really fully finished evolving out of the monkey stage.

[igor-vk 909]

What ever you do it will never be enough. Especially now when we didn't get update in months. It's not because we hate you devs, it's because this game is so addictive.  And even smallest change or smallest new item can change the way game is played. Remember time before cutting sticks for splints??  What ever news you give us is not too much. 

[Sarducar 1]

Hello Brian,

I play Dayz for about 3-4 hours a day (i know get a life ;) ) and a big fan of the game, i try to find info on the new 0.60 patch on a daily basis as its been a couple of months since the last patch......
I am well aware that you guys are working hard on getting things done and things need to run its course and be done in a certain way.
But wouldn't it be a lot easier and get the community a little of your back if you guys would just post a plain blocker list (but keep the bi weekly update) so everybody can see why there is a holdup and cross of every blocker that is solved? even with a seperate topic under the dev topic FI on DayZtv.com 
I understand that some issues resolved will create issues somewhere else (just add them to the list) but then people can actually SEE the progress that your team is making thus keeping the masses at bay so to say.

I work in online and print publishing myself and i know what deadlines are. The thing is the more you tread over the deadlines you have set for your self and your team (like the timeline you guys set in the beginning)the easier you will be to tread over them the next time you have to meet a deadline.

To be honest the reason i think the 0.60 patch is taking so long is you guys are running into some major issues with the new engine and you bit off more than you can chew in the time frame you had planned. But that ok it just means you want the next patch to be as good as possible this ofcourse is PURE speculation from my side.

But keep up the good work and like everyday i am impatiancely waiting for 0.60 ;) 

[GaryWalnuts 1680]

At exactly what date and time is this communication approach going to be released?  

I kid :)  Good luck with the new strategy!

[kaject 2]

1 hour ago, TLaJuggz said:

Its unfortunate that the general public is so fragile and confused. I swear, the human race hasn't really fully finished evolving out of the monkey stage.

It's the vocal minority that's spreading negativity here like disease. Children who have nothing to do with their lives, except for gaming & reddit / forums.

The sane majority is not even close to their level of unnecessary psychosis, trust me.

Edited April 20, 2016 by kaject

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I think this format is working well and will likely improve over time.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts once again, Byron.

 

[Noctoras 409]

2 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

In general you can see a theme above. As development is fluid, it can be hard to predict with certain accuracy exactly when a specific system, tech, or feature will be playable or even showable. We can give our goals, or even our estimates - but we'll always end up upsetting at least one side of the crowd. Not to mention the fact that showing things while in development that aren't *on the docket* for the very next stable release only tends to end up causing confusion - and in some rare cases, frustration. Often you can end up with a render, preview animation, or prototype system that is dependant upon significantly more moving parts to be playable or even testable - and that tends not to trickle out through all human/organic communication channels of mouth to mouth. So moving forward we've been following a principle of only showing things in our YouTube channel that are coming up in the next stable build.

Actually you guys could think about NOT announcing some features or items at all. These easter eggs will no doubt be an extra benefit for the community - I don't think it's necessary to show each item planned in advance. Surprise has its own merit.

What does in fact constitute an issue in terms of communication is the 6 month period between two experimental builds. People (me included) see half a year and little communication within that timeframe. The last status report has been an improvement, because you moved away from "there are blockers" to detailing them to some extent. People thus can see what you work on, no matter if they understand the underlying programming or not. They will not feel abandoned, even if it's a mere technicality. And while previous status reports sometimes have been taken with an amount of irony ("there is blockers. here are your 25 community videos"), I have hardly seen such after the latest status report.

People don't want to understand each line of code. But the want to hear what is being worked on.

When it comes to deadlines / goals, it is tricky. Saying nothing at all will not cut it, giving optimistic estimates might not be the best way either. A conservative goal with a bit of a buffer would be a solution. Noone will try to crucify you for releasing a patch 2 weeks earlier than planned, people will sure as hell praise you guys. Two months late (no matter if goal, deadline, prognosis or whatever) will cause an uneasy mood.

Generally, as I said, I think the team is getting better communication wise lately - which doesn't mean that there is no more space for improvement ;)

This got longer than expected, so I'll stop right here.

Regards
 

N.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Noctoras

[Noctoras 409]

39 minutes ago, kaject said:

The sane majority is not even close to their level of unnecessary psychosis, trust me.

I can't hear these claims of the self declared have-a-lifes about this anymore. Really, noone knows what the majority thinks. We have our opinion and people tend to surround themselves with people of a similar opinion. This is human. Well, I guess thinking to know it all also is human, but it doesn't make it any better.

[GuyRandomMan 54]

2 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Recently I've noticed some discussion and confusion centered around our Communication Process. Now, I'd spoken on this in previous Status Reports - but it looks like it might be in everyone's best interest for me to go over this again.
We made some changes to said process a few months back, starting with handing over responsibility for our Status Reports to Dhawkz, our new Brand Manager. I'm pleased to say that has been very fruitful for us, and we've had the Status Reports out on schedule without issue for quite some time now.

That specifically is not what I was intending to think out loud about today, so let me get back on topic. We have two people full time on community and external communication, and part time each of the leads contribute to it as well.

- SMoss (Community Manager)
- Dhawkz (Brand Manager)

Past the staffing responsibility we have 3 main methods of sharing external development information.

- Status Reports (Biweekly - Tuesdays (Anytime on Tuesday)
- Trello (No schedule, as assets are available to show)
- DayZDevTeam Youtube (No schedule, we show things that are ready to be shown (Dev Logs), and we are trying out developer Q&A videos - Design coming soon!)

In general you can see a theme above. As development is fluid, it can be hard to predict with certain accuracy exactly when a specific system, tech, or feature will be playable or even showable. We can give our goals, or even our estimates - but we'll always end up upsetting at least one side of the crowd. Not to mention the fact that showing things while in development that aren't *on the docket* for the very next stable release only tends to end up causing confusion - and in some rare cases, frustration. Often you can end up with a render, preview animation, or prototype system that is dependant upon significantly more moving parts to be playable or even testable - and that tends not to trickle out through all human/organic communication channels of mouth to mouth. So moving forward we've been following a principle of only showing things in our YouTube channel that are coming up in the next stable build. 
We've allowed for more loose communication style with the Status Reports - as they can tend to be very text heavy and dry, the developers can take some liberty to talk about more long term goals and tasks. In addition, our recent change in how we communicate "deadlines, goals, and targets" will bring milestone review briefs to the Status Reports - starting with .61 development.
Our Trello is very irregular, and I'd like to improve that - I just need to figure out how to combat people misunderstanding a model preview for something that is ready to be in game, or even will be soon. ;)

When it comes to "dates" - well, as I've said a few times before - We're just not doing that with our communication any more. Things come up, dates end up getting pushed, and we end up with both developers and early access users frustrated. So, we're taking a different approach - one that gives a bit more transparency into what systems / changes are targeted for a given stable update, what the progress is towards said build, and what got pushed and why. We have our firm date for Status Reports, and the guideline of "when its ready" for showing things on our YouTube channel - paired with the above mentioned milestone reviews in Status Reports - I think for those that are interested in following DayZ development towards its 1.0 release, there is a lot of information to be had.

I'm sure this rambling post will upset some, maybe please some others - but I thought it needed to be said, and if I didn't care - I wouldn't be here writing it :)

See you all out there in Chernarus!

In my opinion you shouldn't tell people about things until its finished and about to be released or at least not give an exact release date because if you are late people will be mad.

[Girth Brooks 558]

Great post Hicks. I'm looking forward to .60 and patiently waiting playing Diablo 3..... and I am looking forward to surviving with some of my buds who I haven't gamed with lately via DayZ .

[RenegadeKType 0]

41 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

I can't hear these claims of the self declared have-a-lifes about this anymore. Really, noone knows what the majority thinks. We have our opinion and people tend to surround themselves with people of a similar opinion. This is human. Well, I guess thinking to know it all also is human, but it doesn't make it any better.

We can make a generalization of what people think of the game. Look at the units sold, and how many people are playing it. I don't mean on a tuesday at 10AM, but take snapshots of how many people are playing during a week, look at the peak player count, etc. Then you'll see how much of the silent majority is just playing the game and not commenting or if they're not playing.

[TLaJuggz 2]

1 hour ago, kaject said:

It's the vocal minority that's spreading negativity here like disease. Children who have nothing to do with their lives, except for gaming & reddit / forums.

The sane majority is not even close to their level of unnecessary psychosis, trust me.

Well said, I agree.

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

3 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Recently I've noticed some discussion and confusion centered around our Communication Process. Now, I'd spoken on this in previous Status Reports - but it looks like it might be in everyone's best interest for me to go over this again.

 

Only recently noticed? really? I find that impossible to believe, every-time I visit these forums/twitter or happen across someone talking about DayZ elsewhere on the WWW.. it don't take very long to see multiple posts of unrest. People are pissed off of waiting, be them right or wrong, that's what they are.

Here's a quote from another site I visit..

 

Quote

DayZ the Loris might well have been first to the party but its so hopelessly slow its been beaten to the bar.

 

Instead of me looking at it like they are talking out of their arse, instead it made me chuckle and I can't help but agree to an extent. I think there is a genuine fear and resentment of our beloved DayZ coming in last place in a race, a race that you were surely favorite to win, I mean, since you guys invented the race, set the rules and at conception it's sole competitor, you simply couldn't and shouldn't allow that 'last place' to happen or have happened, period. 

 

I'm changing the way I see this title from now on, So please no more explanation posts that just get peoples back up (no matter if intentions are good or to calm a storm) Stick all your chins up, forget or ignore what people are saying and just develop the game. Make it into something we will all love, the reason were all so passionate, disappointed and un-easy is not only because we want the game to be done eventually, but we want it to live up to expectation. Deliver it to the best of your abilities and all will be good. Sod timescales, just make for damn sure when the time comes its a fucking good game with zombies in it.. above all remember this..

 

They who may hate today, may love tomorrow.

Edited April 20, 2016 by [Gen]Adzic

[idie 57]

Thanks for the post Brian,

I think it's a good move too, your communication is getting better :)

It's clearly a good idea to don't give release date anymore, it always fails with game dev.  <- especially in France ^^

Edited April 20, 2016 by idie

[bigman100500 6]

So... The faceless grey piece of THE CROWD here to saw this amazing post, iam so frustrated. And if my shapeless grey crowd body get it right, soon i can get frustrated in more  transparency fashioned way. Shoud i start waiting .61 already?

[Noctoras 409]

On 20.4.2016 at 6:55 PM, RenegadeKType said:

We can make a generalization of what people think of the game. Look at the units sold, and how many people are playing it. I don't mean on a tuesday at 10AM, but take snapshots of how many people are playing during a week, look at the peak player count, etc. Then you'll see how much of the silent majority is just playing the game and not commenting or if they're not playing.

This is off topic, but not commenting doesn't tell anything at all about whether they like the game.

So the 3 million people who BOUGHT DayZ but are NOT playing it hate DayZ, right? I am just using the same logic as you.

There is one way: Ask them. Those who play. Those who bought it, but don't play anymore. This "silent majority" bullshit can be used by about anyone to argue for just about anything. It doesn't make it any more true. Millions of people do NOT complain every day about mosquitoes and yet around in open air bars. Your point being that the silent majority likes mosquitoes?

TLAJuggz tops it all and basically illustrates what I mean. Someone claims something is a FACT (which it is not) and he says "I agree" ... this is like someone disagreeing or agreeing on water being a fluid. Noone knows about whatever silent majority, because it is silent. People have the opportunity to express content or discontent - whether they use it or not a valid rating on actuall content or discontent.

I'll leave it at that, since the topic at hand is something different. We do have opinions on the game and on the dev communication. This is cool. They are different. That's what a forum is there for - exchange opinions. Claiming to speak for whatever majority on the other hand is pointless.

Best regards

N.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Noctoras

[Rags! 1966]

5 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

- I just need to figure out how to combat people misunderstanding a model preview for something that is ready to be in game, or even will be soon. ;)

                                       

Edited April 20, 2016 by Rags!

[Tigermonk 140]

21 hours ago, kaject said:

It's the vocal minority that's spreading negativity here like disease. Children who have nothing to do with their lives, except for gaming & reddit / forums.

The sane majority is not even close to their level of unnecessary psychosis, trust me.

lol i'm sorry dude... but spewing that shit with only 1 post under your belt... makes you a full blown retard... dayz isn't just played by Children who have nothing to do with their lives, except for gaming & reddit / forums. alone... it's also played by adults with big enough stuff to do outside playing dayz.. but the speed of the dev. overall has been pathetic.. all talk no walk for the last 2 months minimum... so please stick that comment of your.. somewhere the sun doesn't shine and refrain from dumb comment that label every user on this forum with the minimal facts and a healthy personal opinion.

delay causes frustration
frustration causes questions
questions demand answers
answers (if not given) result in 'negative' remarks/statements because YES that's what humans do if things don't work/add up in the long run.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I feel like there has been an unusual succession of poor or false information from the devs in recent months:

We were given an estimate of February and that fell short by more than an entire quarter.

It was said they would not hold the patch for a status report or event and now it seems they are doing just that. (I think it was in a status report)

The devs said dynamic infected spawn was confirmed for .60 and now that was pushed back too. (Do you remember saying that on a recent stream, Byron?)

If you're holding back .60 to boost viewers on the PAX stream, that's fucked up.

You can't convince me DayZ needs more hype....

[Tigermonk 140]

56 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

FI feel like there has been an unusual succession of poor or false information from the devs in recent months:

We were given an estimate of February and that fell short by more than an entire quarter.

It was said they would not hold the patch for a status report or event and now it seems they are doing just that. (I think it was in a status report)

The devs said dynamic infected spawn was confirmed for .60 and now that was pushed back too. (Do you remember saying that on a recent stream, Byron?)

If you're holding back .60 to boost viewers on the PAX stream, that's fucked up.

You can't convince me DayZ needs more hype....

Finally catching on huh? I've been saying that since november last year! 
all they do is 'talk' and 'hype' all 'show' but no 'go' and I've been flagged for 'destructive/negative' remarks every single time... so this just goes to show.. that I was right all along.. their probably going to hype the Sh!t out of this pax thing.. then when that's done.. MAAAAYBE release the 0.60 in may... cause you just can't tell people 'over and over and over again' 'we're patching this leak/bump/optimizing this and this and this' while stalling the shit out of your release.

I seriously see DayZ going down each and every month being more and more build on 'broken promises'
my guess? 0.65 will bring modding.. after that they'll label it 'beta/done' and let the community mod the shit out of this thing and slowly make their retreat to some private island bought with their millions earned in Early access

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

31 minutes ago, Tigermonk said:

Finally catching on huh? -snip-

Your view point is more extreme than mine on this and you make them sound nefarious in how they have handled the game, which is completely not the case. Somehow I think you are not taking into consideration the trials and tribulations DayZ dev has gone through or the special challenges of the project unique to DayZ game and dev process.

Sarcasm, personal attacks, and rude condemnation of the devs will always be met with stern warnings and possibly mod actions and is counterproductive.

In the last few years there have been times when deadlines are missed or info is scarce but these 3 listed above are some of the worst instances of communication breakdown in Standalone history.

I do not agree that after Beta they will "take the money and run".

BI has their entire future invested in the success of DayZ. If they make the game I believe they want to make it will cement them as an industry leader and give them a lot more support for projects in the future.

[Coheed_IV 381]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 10:02 AM, Tigermonk said:

I seriously see DayZ going down each and every month being more and more build on 'broken promises'

When did you hear "promises"? Your looking at things in retrospect, and then assume that they must have known more, they must have lied. They're developing in unknown territory, everything they do has not been done. You should take development reports at face value and relax.

BI isn't huge, they've been very open about their struggles with their own engine and documentation. Just because they sell 3 million copies doesn't mean they can then power through problems. Relax and enjoy the fact that they are giving DayZ respect.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Coheed_IV
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