About the new .60 performance comparison

[Ironhuge 69]

All though i think it's nice you guys are aiming towards 1:1 rendering I feel the main questions are being overseen. The questions is not about FPS, its cool that it stays above 30, but it's still low. Being "the first iteration" I guess time will allow for better performance as you guys work on things, but FPS is not interesting as far as game-play goes (FPS is something obvious, ofc. you guys cannot settle for a game that doesn't play smooth). If this game was Counter-Strike or Call of Duty, FPS is game-breaking, but not in DayZ. As long as the games run smooth everywhere, we're fine.

The real questions are; Rendering distance, night-time, ambient life and stuff like that. In the new rendering engine, the textures still wait to go high-res until aprox. 20m away, what this means is that if you sit in a bush and think you are hidden from anyone - the fact is that you are not. Also, rendering issues of details like trees, walls and windows still remains. Yes, you guys said 1:1 ratio, but surely DirectX api's must have better ways of handling stuff like this? Also, it looks like the overall rendering distance (from the first section of the movie) is just a couple of hundred meters. This wont work for snipers or regular survivors scouting towns before going in.

Are we going to see work on these areas as well?

This is not a rant! I just want to ask the REAL questions.

[Zervox 14]

The first section of the video really only shows weather with heavy fog, I doubt you should take that as a pointer to actual rendering distance.

It's not really up to the API, most features you have in the API is to improve efficiency, eg performance of special kind of things to draw, or even allow you to do something at all without crippling your performance.

like Hardware instancing for hundreds to thousands of low-medium static details objects(grass,trees) to reduce the amount of draw calls.

things like graphical glitches resides outside of the actual API, and is only to blame for bad draw logic, bad packing of variables for their object/material shaders, shader code which is written poorly or using low precision data types.

 

and yes they have commented that they are working on those issues as well.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Zervox

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

I thought Hicks could have sounded a bit more "Enfusiastic" about it all.

[philbur 476]

A consideration for me is the fact that since FPS will be a major factor for determining where people will set their graphics settings....the lower the FPS the lower they will keep their rendering...which leads to unbalanced gameplay.

I am one of those people that really enjoy playing on maximum settings with as much LOD as possible, so I am already setting myself up to get shot or at least out-flanked by others who use these settings to gain what can be called an "unfair" advantage.

I run an i7 with two AMD 290X's in CFX and those alone should be lots, right? But I play on triple screen Eyefinity so right now FPS is a major problem...especially when I come up against PVP players who have streamlined their settings to give them as much of an advantage as possible. If the devs were to focus more on LOD at distance and other immersive features of the graphics API then FPS will tumble further and provide even a greater separation between the two player types.

I would submit that the development focus should be solely on optimizing the renderer and polishing the world object calculations until the game can be run at very high levels of detail with fairly high-end (but not ridiculous) hardware and THEN they could just set higher limits on the MINIMAL LOD settings. Forcing the use of minimal draw distances and minimal LOD for objects would certainly piss off the laptoppers or low-spec PC users but no mainstream AAA title really cares about that kind of thing because these kinds of games are primarily designed for the enthusiast.

If 30 FPS can be the minimum mark based on a mid-range PC (i5 or AMD flagship CPU with a decent AMD or Nvidia GPU) then having a draw distance of 2km at full LOD would probably be easily achievable once the renderer becomes more fully integrated.

Having a max FPS becomes an interesting way of going about it as well, except for the endless array of 60-120hz monitors...CFX and SLI rigs...and multi-monitor gamers....so where do they try to create that much needed level playing field?

So getting back to your concern about the focus on FPS... I think it is the "benchmark" we use as our reasoning behind where we set the graphics levels. I personally choose to avoid other players because my in-game experience would be diminished by having to crank my graphics down enough to at least give myself a chance against PVP kiddies and Bandits. I also seriously suck at ARMA 3 because I again choose to run absolutely beautiful graphics levels in multiplayer at the expense of smooth FPS and "cheater" levels of LOD.

DayZ will probably ALWAYS suffer from FPS issues simply due to the high detail and number of objects and the environmental effects, so I hope they get it as optimized as possible before they move on to something else. My fear is that they will get to a point where the FPS becomes decent enough to keep us quiet and then they add other enhancements/effects that end up penalizing the high-detail loving players later when correcting these issues becomes too time-consuming and resource-intensive.

My question will eventually be...."how can we PREVENT players from running minimalist graphic detail levels?"

[Guest]

The thing is the game partly revolves around you having good FPS, since the real issue is actually the clunkyness of the game. Bear with me. So the game is clunky we all know that, so what happens when you add fps+clunkyness? it gives an even more unfair advantage because of the whole inventory system, shooting and aiming system and movement system in DayZ. We need FPS to make this game fair first, then fixing the clunkyness.  

[stinkenheim 249]

This is pathetic. The devs can literally do nothing right by this community. 

Everyone complains that the game isn't optimised and you can't get 60 fps with an i7 and 980ti. They release a video showing the first version of the renderer technology that doubles average fps in big cities and now that's not good enough.  No, we want super HD textures on things 3km away and bushes and trees that show every single leaf from the other side of the map.

 

Ffs guys come on.

They have said they are working on improving the quality of foliage.they want there to be denser woodland areas. They are working on improving the aa on objects and reducing the load on systems to allow for higher quality graphics but it won't happen in the first iteration of the new renderer. 

 

 

Thank you to the devs for taking the time to show everybody direct comparisons between legacy and new technology. I for one appreciate it and look forward to seeing how you can further utilise the new tools in the future 

[philbur 476]

34 minutes ago, [Gen]Adzic said:

I thought Hicks could have sounded a bit more "Enfusiastic" about it all.

Yeah...I picked up on that too...

He really set off alarm bells in my mind with his apparent lack of interest. It came at a time where we really needed to be reassured about the release of 0.60 and it came across (to me at least) as if he could care less.

Oh well.... I am developing an excellent short term memory for stuff like this and my attitude is changing for the better because of it.

[Zervox 14]

Even though a game developer love to make games he/she/they want to, at some point all the features etc they add becomes a daily thing, how long would you brag about your new job? or what you are doing during the first week at that new job of yours? after a few years I would probably still love developing my game, but it's hard to cater over to talking to people who isn't amongst the developers.

Perhaps Bohemia should hire Steve Ballmer. :P

[stinkenheim 249]

I think it was twofold. Firstly that's the way he sounds. Listen to videos of him and streams etc. He isn't a presenter as such. He details the facts and that's about it.

Secondly he sounded like he was reading a prepared statement which is good. It means there is less room for him to be misunderstood.

[philbur 476]

6 minutes ago, stinkenheim said:

This is pathetic. The devs can literally do nothing right by this community. 

Everyone complains that the game isn't optimised and you can't get 60 fps with an i7 and 980ti. They release a video showing the first version of the renderer technology that doubles average fps in big cities and now that's not good enough.  No, we want super HD textures on things 3km away and bushes and trees that show every single leaf from the other side of the map.

 

Ffs guys come on.

They have said they are working on improving the quality of foliage.they want there to be denser woodland areas. They are working on improving the aa on objects and reducing the load on systems to allow for higher quality graphics but it won't happen in the first iteration of the new renderer. 

 

 

Thank you to the devs for taking the time to show everybody direct comparisons between legacy and new technology. I for one appreciate it and look forward to seeing how you can further utilise the new tools in the future 

My man....Honestly...

This was not a rage topic so don't paint it like one. I for one, was not crapping on the devs for not delivering orgasmic eye candy in 0.60 and I don't think that was the point of the OP.

This was about what was more important to the player...pure FPS or Graphic Fidelity...and I personally think it is a valid conversation that the Developers can benefit from paying attention to.

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

Please don't be one of those who mistakes genuine warranted criticism and feedback as hate or troll'ery. 

 

Pretty sure anyone who has any sort of interest in the game is really grateful for the video, infact grateful for anything development related. Highlighting concerns or asking questions (which we don't get the chance to on the video itself.. since comments are disabled) should be encouraged and welcomed, not seen as pathetic.

[BeefBacon 1185]

1 hour ago, [Gen]Adzic said:

I thought Hicks could have sounded a bit more "Enfusiastic" about it all.

I don't think I've ever heard Hicks be enthusiastic about anything. I don't mean that as a slight, I think that's just how he speaks. I mean, given the choice between a slightly tired sounding Hicks and Pewdiepie, I'll pick Hicks any day.

Cool video, though. I was a bit underwhelmed visually - the performance increase is nice but I was really hoping there'd be a noticeable difference between night times in DX9 and 11. Still, great work. I approve of the fog.

[Guest]

 

58 minutes ago, philbur said:

My man....Honestly...

This was not a rage topic so don't paint it like one. I for one, was not crapping on the devs for not delivering orgasmic eye candy in 0.60 and I don't think that was the point of the OP.

This was about what was more important to the player...pure FPS or Graphic Fidelity...and I personally think it is a valid conversation that the Developers can benefit from paying attention to.

I don't think it was the fact that OP was hating on the devs, its the fact that everyone for months on end has be complaining about fps issues saying its not up to standard. When they fix it what do they get - A guy saying apparently now fps ISN'T an issue, even though it clearly is. "All though i think it's nice" just using that already makes him sound like a massive asshole, saying it as if the majority of us haven't been waiting for this for almost 2 years and as if fps doesnt actually effect the gameplay. 

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

Honestly, I think they are keeping it all under wraps, ready for when the games "core" is ready to accept all the new stuff and work as they intend it to. Way I see it.. they are already burdened with missed estimations disappointing players, past mistakes are being learned from maybe? So with that in mind, its probably pointless adding and talking about stuff we likely wont see for a while, that way we can't be discontent and salty if anything happens to stop any new things from being included.

 

That's what I tell myself anyway when I'm feeling like I'm being an asshole myself. Either that or they will release a big content boom, Zombies and all.. that will literally make us look like assholes for questioning it for all this time, I want them to make me look like an asshole in all honesty! :)

 

My Hicks comment was actually a silly attempt at humor (the way I spelled enthusiastic), I'm sure he'd be a good laugh to sit and have a beer with.

Edited March 26, 2016 by [Gen]Adzic

[Ironhuge 69]

1 hour ago, philbur said:

This was not a rage topic so don't paint it like one.

Thank you for understanding the point of this thread!

[Accolyte 1727]

1 hour ago, BeefBacon said:

I was really hoping there'd be a noticeable difference between night times in DX9 and 11.

Do you really not see the difference? I thought the difference was... night and day.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Accolyte

[Ironhuge 69]

2 minutes ago, Accolyte said:

Do you really not see the difference? I thought the difference was... night and day.

I think he is referring to the "darkness" of it all. Though there are differences, it actually looks like you see "less" in the new rendering engine. I think most of us was under the impression that night-time would be "nerfed" to prevent gamma/brightness hackers. Though I have my hopes up that the next couple of iterations will fix this! :)

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

1 hour ago, BeefBacon said:

I don't think I've ever heard Hicks be enthusiastic about anything. I don't mean that as a slight, I think that's just how he speaks. I mean, given the choice between a slightly tired sounding Hicks and Pewdiepie, I'll pick Hicks any day.

Cool video, though. I was a bit underwhelmed visually - the performance increase is nice but I was really hoping there'd be a noticeable difference between night times in DX9 and 11. Still, great work. I approve of the fog.

Then you've never listened to me.

Lets keep the topic about DayZ, and not trying to "read between the lines" on the tone of my voice.
Its just plain silly.

[Zervox 14]

I forgot to mention this, but saying one can't see much difference in night life in the video, I can clearly see a difference, DX11 has subtle coloring, DX9 does not, and I do hope the subtle coloring is intentional, this can easily be spotted in the part of Elektro.

Notice the change in color tones when they switch, this already is a huge difference, and one that I really enjoy.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I was wondering this morning why this wasn't posted in the forums but after reading most of the comments in this thread I don't wonder...

 

I need to run the Cherna+ in Arma 3 again and see the performance in there. The map runs much better in Arma 3 so that could show around the minimum performance they can achieve. There should be still nice room to improve the fps.

The fog really showed how the environment can change bit more scary and apocalyptic with small change.

LOD change is sometimes problem but I believe that can be solved except for the Z-fighting.

//Oh yeah and now there's no more black/white night. Night actually has colors in it's darkness.

Edited March 26, 2016 by St. Jimmy

[Just Caused 423]

Let's hope that BI isn't anything like those scums from Ubisoft. They scammed me for Watch Dogs, Unity and The Division. I lost all interest in that company after I realised they were using make-up on their screenshots and gameplays...

[Irish. 4886]

While this is fun.. Im just going to stick to playing the game and seeing what BI does. 

 

Since they don't pay me to speculate and what not.

 

o.O

[Ben_uk 24]

I think double performance over the old renderer isn't too bad a result for the first version of the DX11 renderer.

I would think with further optimisation of the map, there might be even more performance to gain.

One thing about the map, some of the textures are painfully low-res. I haven't read anything at all about the state of the texture mapping. For instance, the runway texture used at the airports / air bases, it looks like something from a game about 20 years back. Some other textures look ok, but some could really use an update, like a lot of the floor textures in warehouses / hangars. Again, the reason I ask is because ive read nothing about updating the environment in terms of texture, the only thing ive caught is the conversations about the actual renderer itself.

Thanks,

Ben.

[Killawife 599]

The renderer renders the textures so they will most likely be updated. Its not a small task though. Its also likely not a priority becasue AS THEY HAVE SAID they are working on the player controller next, which is what will get away from the clunkiness of the game. Doesnt people read the status reports before posting? They talked about that in the last one and the one before. I personally dont care about the game getting prettier, it doesnt need to be. it just needs to be more fluent and easier to actualyl do stuff in. I cant even count the times I've been killed solely because of things not workiing as they should or my character not responding to commands be it not taking out weapons, not reloading, not moving, not laying down, not stopping an animation etc etc. Once this is resolved the game will be infinitely more enjoyable. And any other game that raises the fps from 18 to 30 would most likely get a standing ovation but with Dayz nothing seems to be enough.

[emuthreat 2837]

I agree with Killawife.  Don't give a damn about the textures or bushiness of the bushes until I stop getting those deaths from having to try three times to reload or not being able swap a weapon at the wrong time.  Maybe do something about street signs that don't render until you have already hit them; that kind of stuff.