Beta in Q2?

[S3V3N 1402]

28 minutes ago, Kohlbar said:

I have no problem with people wondering when/if the game is coming out, etc. But when people start to act like they know the development phase better than a dev team, it really pisses me off. "Oh, fix the massive amount of bugs first then add new content! I want a squeaky clean early access experience wah wah wah!" These people just can't get it through their skulls that EACH "new content" added brings with it a large chance for more and more bugs? That being said, I do wonder about the pace they're going at myself. It seems like they're asking a lot of themselves to want to have beta out by Q2 (whatever that is) but I'm at least grateful that they keep us updated on a somewhat consistent schedule.

If you wanna quote production cycles, Dayz isn't a good example. One problem with Bohemia games until Dayz is that they are a smaller studio with their in-house engine. So they can't just hire ten new programmers to get it done. They would have to learn the engine first and EnFusion now adds a different set of tools and options altogether. I think the programmers at Bohemia must have lots of interaction - but they don't always have time to solve a problem (because they work on more than one game). So there is  that and I'd count that as a thing that can't be changed. At least not on the short run. 

But there are things that can be changed. Like telling us the true state of 0.60 and keeping us informed when updates have serious delays. We only get informed when things are overdue anyway and even then the info is sparce. And I' like some more info on vehicles mechanics, for example. Will there be attachments (I think so, but maybe just not right now); will we ever get a car-jack. Questions like these come up all the time and aren't hard to answer. Idk if the devs don't see or feel this same trouble, or if they just don't want to comment. I'd like to see them involved with the game, as well as with the community. If we know they know that already helps a lot; most of the time we don't know they know, or if they even care. 

Development moves on, but Dayz is now at a stagnant point, where most things that were introduced in 2015 work and we are waiting for the next step. If it were just any other update, I would not even bother. But this update is meaningful for the game and for the iteration of core features. It's the one update I expected them to get right and ship out in a timely manner. And the last piece of info was that things are fine with the renderer, just some details and optimisation are still worked on. If that was the case, why the delay and if the delay continues, why no new info? We are either so close to release that they don't bother making news about delays, or we are that far away that they don't dare to. Let's hope it is the first one. I don't want to continue o n 0.59 right now. Despite it being an alright version, with so much impending change and the months its been running, things are ripe for change. 

Edited March 12, 2016 by S3V3N

[sneakydude 480]

and here i came to think beta was being announced!!!

most of the Z guys already feel dayz is a moot point, gave up on it. Sadly i dont want to agree with them yet.

[Tigermonk 140]

4 hours ago, Kohlbar said:

I have no problem with people wondering when/if the game is coming out, etc. But when people start to act like they know the development phase better than a dev team, it really pisses me off. "Oh, fix the massive amount of bugs first then add new content! I want a squeaky clean early access experience wah wah wah!" These people just can't get it through their skulls that EACH "new content" added brings with it a large chance for more and more bugs? That being said, I do wonder about the pace they're going at myself. It seems like they're asking a lot of themselves to want to have beta out by Q2 (whatever that is) but I'm at least grateful that they keep us updated on a somewhat consistent schedule.

you're actually saying the exact opposite of your comment all around.. you bash people for blaming the mods that their adding stuff we don't need creating more bugs.. but at the same time you're wondering about their dev speed atm. and how people can say (devs) we'll have beta in Q2... so wrap your head around ur own comment first before you bash people for telling the truth and dishing out some pent up frustration on the devs for being slowbro's in every stage of dev. while making promises, (maybe's) and HOPING they get shit done in set time lines beta was planned for Q4 2015... not Q2.. so I don't blame people for starting to wonder what in the flying crap their exactly doing all these months without big progress.. while they talk about 'guns and clothing' most of their blogs.. then make another statement that start with 'we hope' then mention a rendering engine in november.. hoping its done for testing by january.. then post pone it until start of march because 'maybe' guess what? its prob. going to be in april somewhere.. 

[Kohlbar 268]

20 hours ago, S3V3N said:

But there are things that can be changed. Like telling us the true state of 0.60 and keeping us informed when updates have serious delays. We only get informed when things are overdue anyway and even then the info is sparce. And I' like some more info on vehicles mechanics, for example. Will there be attachments (I think so, but maybe just not right now); will we ever get a car-jack. Questions like these come up all the time and aren't hard to answer. Idk if the devs don't see or feel this same trouble, or if they just don't want to comment. I'd like to see them involved with the game, as well as with the community. If we know they know that already helps a lot; most of the time we don't know they know, or if they even care.

I agree 100% with this, I like the updates but it I think everyone would appreciate more transparency when it comes to delays and major problems. Of course they are going to be careful about what info they release for obvious reasons, but it would be nice if we got a "We can't push the next patch, here's why, and here's what were doing."

[S3V3N 1402]

17 hours ago, Tigermonk said:

you're actually saying the exact opposite of your comment all around.. you bash people for blaming the mods that their adding stuff we don't need creating more bugs.. but at the same time you're wondering about their dev speed atm. and how people can say (devs) we'll have beta in Q2... so wrap your head around ur own comment first before you bash people for telling the truth and dishing out some pent up frustration on the devs for being slowbro's in every stage of dev. while making promises, (maybe's) and HOPING they get shit done in set time lines beta was planned for Q4 2015... not Q2.. so I don't blame people for starting to wonder what in the flying crap their exactly doing all these months without big progress.. while they talk about 'guns and clothing' most of their blogs.. then make another statement that start with 'we hope' then mention a rendering engine in november.. hoping its done for testing by january.. then post pone it until start of march because 'maybe' guess what? its prob. going to be in april somewhere.. 

Like you wrote - you didn't play the Mods; they have heaps of guns modded into it and Arma II wasn't exactly short on weapons. So that's something many people expect. 3D Models are always a nice eye-catcher, even when they are WIP; showcasing some lines of code isn't. Apart from that, I think you're right. It's not nice to experience this over and over and it's probably no joy for the devs either. I'm sure they would want to speed things up, but the structure of the team and the resources don't let them. But why things are hopefully announced and then there is silence, nobody knows. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by S3V3N

[igor-vk 909]

Showcasing lines of code and then showing how it works in game would shut up many dirty mouth. And real fans would be satisfied. Some other games devs show small progress like new crafting or effects. 

[Santa fox 53]

Plenty of better off survival games out there that outdo DayZ a thousand times over - both on new engines that are completely made for the game, and on old engines simply reworked. DayZ has lost the niche it once had, I doubt it will ever be able to reclaim it.

[Yuval 221]

Stop crying about it and move on. DayZ died more than half a year ago. You'll be told that whatever is being developed for a long time will be better at release. But every adult person will fucking puzzle up the common sense and say "I'm being fucked". DayZ is an example of good intention with wrong reasons early access concept. Every game that sits in early access for 3 years and gets updated once in 3 months is a complete BS. DayZ was a good concept and perhaps a pioneer of some sorts in 2012-2013. But it died, move on. There are alot of games today that focus on survival and looting and player interaction. The Division is one hell of a triple-A title based on survival, player interaction, loot and RPG. Played it for a week and got addicted. Point is you're waiting for something that doesn't exists.

 

And if you don't want to move on, play ArmA 3. There are tons of mods that focus on harsh player interaction and the game itself gets updated constantly, with free platform updates every DLC release.

 

Realize that DayZ is a failed project. The new engine will no longer draw attention for the long term because it doesnt stand a comparison with the games today.

 

I can't believe people actually try to justify the year delay for any reason. This is like Stockholm syndrome. How many deadlines did the DayZ team not accomplish in the initial dev plan and in the new engine's dev plan. Fuck it, let's do a complete/failed ratio for anything that was ever said. The dev team stands on less than 0.5. There is no justification and the only thing I've seen throughout the long 3 years of failed development roadmaps was the steam pricetag go up in steps of 5 from 30 to 45 $. That's basically it.

 

And don't dare to call me an ignorant because I've been part of this community since the beginning, read every dev announcement and status report. Been there to see the community rise and fall after good and bad updates.

 

Take the general amount of players with over 10 hours ingame and subtract the amount of people who still actively play the game. The result is the amount of people who opened their eyes sooner or later. That number is big by the hundred thousands.

Edited March 14, 2016 by yuval

[pilgrim* 3513]

8 hours ago, yuval said:

. ..//..
This is like Stockholm syndrome
..//..

  :) I laughed

[S3V3N 1402]

10 hours ago, yuval said:

I can't believe people actually try to justify the year delay for any reason. This is like Stockholm syndrome. How many deadlines did the DayZ team not accomplish in the initial dev plan and in the new engine's dev plan. Fuck it, let's do a complete/failed ratio for anything that was ever said. The dev team stands on less than 0.5. There is no justification and the only thing I've seen throughout the long 3 years of failed development roadmaps was the steam pricetag go up in steps of 5 from 30 to 45 $. That's basically it.

And don't dare to call me an ignorant because I've been part of this community since the beginning, read every dev announcement and status report. Been there to see the community rise and fall after good and bad updates.

Take the general amount of players with over 10 hours ingame and subtract the amount of people who still actively play the game. The result is the amount of people who opened their eyes sooner or later. That number is big by the hundred thousands.

Agreed - the delays are far and beyond justifiable and what really grinds my gears (!) is that the team pretends they are almost on schedule, because these features never had a release date pinned to them. So they can basically make up their own truth and reality and tell us we just read their (dis)information wrong. Fact is the team is terrible at management goals. That may be part of the development progress/stress, but the first commercial team (as 3D Environmental Artist) I was in, we only got payed very little, while the project lead was renting booths in discotheques, posted pictures of Champagne bottles and Caviar and got a girl pregnant he had to pay an abortion to; game development doesn't bring out the best sides in people, but often the worst; you have to start asking for delay reasons at some point. 

After that I sorta quit developing games and whenever I see a project like Dayz with a potentially huge budget and it moves at less than 5 patches a year, I'm thinking someone is not doing their job right. Either it's Mark Spanel for letting this go on and on, or it is Hicks for not putting the foot down. It's all fine and dandy working with lose deadlines and artistic liberties, but when things are still falling behind when you think they are pacing up, there is something really wrong with the team's organisation and development. Yes, the EnFusion-engine is a new engine development and a huge task, but other studios can do it and actually release games on comparably untested engines every couple of years. 

The thing about Dayz is, there is no way to justify these delays any more, but the game isn't a scam. It is moving forward and is ambitious about its goals, and imho in great parts it's better than the competition (or has that potential). But all the important things are getting pushed back more and more. Character Controller, infected-AI, Renderer, hit-boxes, building and probably a dozen interconnected features don't make it into the game fast enough. I bought Dayz when trucks were announced, I got cars since and manual transmission and not much else. Some crafting that is pretty useless with the current mass of items spawning. My point is: we are still not even near the final game, because so much is a placeholder. And those issues don't go away. We hear talk about the final systems, but we don't really know their state and when they are implemented. It all seems to rise and fall with the renderer, so maybe that is why this update is taking so long: the team knows that their credibility rests on the success of this patch.  

Edited March 15, 2016 by S3V3N

[Santa fox 53]

Two posts above me nail it, more or less. Shame it went down this route as it was a pretty promising game.

[call him Steve 46]

 The DayZ movement is DEAD. H1Z1, whatever that junk was on Xbox (ApoxZ), and other knock offs have slammed the door and nailed the windows shut. They are all crap, but because they are "finished" complete games people think of them first before DayZ SA, in it's Alpha Stage. Those games can NOT compare to DayZ , I understand. But ignorance is bliss and morons will speak to other idiots with facts that are really opinions. And word of mouth is stronger than any paid advertising.  Then again missed deadline after missed deadline doesn't help keep up good faith 

 

At this point, I hope this is all just the foundation for a DAYZ 2! And not just a Bohemia Interactive Engine build project.

[Deathlove 2280]

3 hours ago, call him Steve said:

 At this point, I hope this is all just the foundation for a DAYZ 2! And not just a Bohemia Interactive Engine build project.

I dont think after ppl have been waiting this damn long for a complete game would be overly thrilled to buy a sequel that probably wont be finished till 2021.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Deathlove

[bonesnap 75]

Quote

What's the final release date for beta? I can't see it anywhere before the end of 2017; and that's optimistic.

FTFY.

[airborneguy 93]

On 3/8/2016 at 5:22 PM, stinkenheim said:

I see this game's beta beginning when the new engine segments are all implemented (not fully iterated but all initially implemented).

After that I think it'll be big additions like base building and flying vehicles which will be the features added.

Then it can not be called beta if everyone says that alpha is for "implementing things".

[Razgries 25]

 Hahaha damn I just caught up on this thread, and went to brian's Twitter to see what was up since that's where all the hot news seems to be... I saw these images in this order on the left, made me laugh.... You all raise good points, I guess we should all just move on...? At least for awhile. :P

 

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

A good read for players confused on the difference between Alpha and Beta.

=======================================================================================================

Alpha

See also: Alpha release

Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[153] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[154] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[153] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[154] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[152] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release,[153] but this can vary significantly based on the scope of content and assets any given game has.

Code freeze

Code freeze is the stage when new code is no longer added to the game and only bugs are being corrected. Code freeze occurs three to four months before code release.[153]

 

Beta

See also: Beta release

Beta is feature and asset complete version of the game, when only bugs are being fixed.[152][153] This version contains no bugs that prevent the game from being shippable.[152] No changes are made to the game features, assets, or code. Beta occurs two to three months before code release.[153]

Code release

Code release is the stage when many bugs are fixed and game is ready to be shipped or submitted for console manufacturer review. This version is tested against QA test plan. First code release candidate is usually ready three to four weeks before code release.[153]

[stinkenheim 249]

The devs have already said it won't be a standard beta. Expect them to continue to tinker with features besidesuch just bug fixing when the game enters official beta.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

On 3/21/2016 at 0:04 AM, stinkenheim said:

The devs have already said it won't be a standard beta. Expect them to continue to tinker with features besidesuch just bug fixing when the game enters official beta.

There's a standard definition of what Beta is for a reason. As much respect as I have for developers and this game, it's irrelevant how they do business or what they say the game phase is at. A movie producer that has rated R content dosent magically get a PG13 rating because they feel 13 year olds can watch their movie. That just not how it works. If they continue to work on Alpha content, it will continue to be an Alpha game. If they work on both Alpha and Beta content at the same time, then the game development continues to sit at it's lowest unfinished rating of Alpha.

Otherwise the terms "Early Access", "Alpha", "Beta" and so on. Don't really mean anything to 99.9% of the gaming industry or community, because magically some developer or publisher can call his product something he or she hasn't earned to call their product. Which is the trending concern here, that DayZ hasn't earned the Beta tag and calling it Beta is purely aesthetic in function and not a sign of what the game has earned by it's level of development.

Which is a major regulation issue right now across the gaming industry, that I have a feeling is only going to last a few more years. Especially as publishers become more blatant about releasing Beta Products as finished products with finished price tags attached.

Edited March 22, 2016 by [DGN] Johnny

[scriptfactory 620]

There were people that spoke about the problems with the DayZ development process years ago and no one listened. I even remember some SC2 player (was it destiny.gg?) that realized there was no way this game would reach beta by Q4 2014/Q1 2015 and was banned from /r/dayz. Anyone disappointed in the progress of the game has some right to be... but that won't bring any sort of satisfaction.

I firmly believe that the game is not dead and will be finished. I also believe that the DayZ leadership has made huge mistakes in regards to customer communication. I believe that experimental is not utilized in a way that it should be (e.g. weekly, bi-weekly or monthly builds regardless of project stability). I say all of these things as a programmer and group leader so I am not speaking from a place of complete ignorance. I also realize that my beliefs don't mean shit and "DayZ gonna' DayZ"

@[DGN] Johnny You are absolutely correct that game development studios are abusing the terms pre-alpha, alpha, beta, etc. There is no regulatory commission or whatever to control these terms, though. When I first started programming (circa 1995) these were terms that were only used internally. It makes sense that non-developers (i.e. marketing/PR) would abuse them as a designation of progress since consumers have no idea what they really mean.

Edit: Holy shit. Found a video from Destiny where he is talking about the concerns some people (myself included) had years ago. Totally. Fucking. Validated. 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by scriptfactory

[Accolyte 1727]

Don't really see Destiny's video to be validated in any way. I used to like the guy back in the SC2 times but he just became way too toxic.

He's just shouting all the typical nonsense people post all the time.

"Oh he says things he thinks I wouldn't understand but I do", but he really doesn't.

And the typical "He took the money he made to climb mt Everest"

So what? Why do people feel like they can dictate what he (or anyone for that matter) does with his money? It's not like he took money from the development budget. Does he not have the right to go on a holiday? I mean really...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Accolyte

[scriptfactory 620]

Not saying Destiny is perfect. Not saying all of his opinions are on point. The "Dean going to Mt. Everest" topic is nonsensical... In fact, he is acting like a douche. But he made several good points that Rocket outright dismissed and basically called him ignorant.

His main point was the engine needed to be completely re-worked from the ground up and what they presented @ E3 looked like a reskinned version of the A2 mod. He was correct. The bullshit about finishing the move to a completely new client and server architecture was also proven false... which is why we are still waiting on "Enfusion". I don't know, @Accolyte. Read it for yourself. I bet he feels validated. I would have.

[Accolyte 1727]

The client/server infrastructure was clearly reworked though (eg. it doesn't accept scripts like the mod did so hacking isn't just a matter of running a script engine). 

I dont doubt Destiny feels validated. I don't think he's capable of feeling otherwise :)