Have we forgotten our roots?

[synystr 118]

The second anniversary of the release of DayZ SA is fast approaching, and I've taken stock of my time spent in DayZ, including the mod. 

 

Where are we going with this game? It seems the age old adage "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" has rang true once again. The problem with that is the people who are content never think of voicing their opinion because they don't need to, until its too late. Like right now.

 

We came from the mod. Legendary, but admirably simple in the way it presented itself. You start on a beach. Survive. If you broke your legs, you need morphine. If you are hungry, eat a can of food. If you are trapped in a building by zombies, shoot your way out and make a dash for safety or hack your way out quietly and sneak away. See a car? It needs a wheel and engine parts. Simple.

 

The problem with DayZ now is it is taking itself too seriously. In a bid to make itself "realistic", the devs, led by the community, have gone to great lengths to make the game overly complicated. But, when is a zombie apocalypse ever "realistic"? The mod worked so well because it was fun in its simplicity and it immersed you in the atmosphere of the apocalypse.

 

Now, you have to worry about farming, an overly complicated medical and food system, fishing... etc. DayZ is turning into a camping simulator that happens to include angry, pale skinned, teleporting, pugilists...

 

The BASE DayZ experience that hooked us hasn't even been completely emulated yet, almost 2 years in. The zombies were... barely passable... in the mod. But at least they worked. And this is a zombie survival game! I mean, that should be the FIRST priority. But no, now we can sew and do archery.

 

I've gotten my money's worth with my 400 or so hours in game and there is plenty of things the standalone does fantastic over the mod. Plenty. But, sadly, it seems that we have forgotten where we came from, forgotten what got us hooked back in the summer of 2012.

 

There. I've said my piece. You now have permission to lynch me.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Synystr

[blehan9390 19]

Well said. I agree completely.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I don't agree at all . Standalone is so addicting because it pushes the envelope on realism , attention to detail, and complexity that other games don't . Do you remember how little buildings were enterable in the mod ? Do you remember how we didn't have a "hands up button" until standalone introduced it making encounters in the mod MUCH more shallow and unnecessarily deadly than they ever could be in stabdalone (believe it or not that proximity only voice system makes a difference, you actually yet to interact with some people instead of making friends in global chat )..

Remembering how great the mod was , is a sort of fickle thing to do because what made the mod so great was that it was something that noone had ever done before : open world full loot pvp zombie sandbox environment. Now that standalone and many other games are going down this path there are two points : the first is people expect great things , and naturally standalone is highest on that list because of all this content that the OP despises and all the attention to detail put into the game . The second is that people should be putting their memories into fruition because those that did play the mod remember it for being very clunky , very simple (which OP over praises as a good thing) and very unbalanced (ppl with thermal scoped .50 cal sniper rifles camping the coast because of overly populated gun and vehicle servers .

Long story short , if you want another slapped together shoddy mod quality game then keep the rose colored glasses on but if we wanna see something that is so in depth that we really feel like we're living in the apocalypse then believe in standalone and give it time because although it's taking its sweet as time we know for sure it's going to be the first of its kind in terms of content weighed with quality and attention to detail and that it will keep everyone entertained wether you're a zombie fan or not .

All in all I think people are all very passionate about standalone but everytime a delay comes up people freak out and look for the next thing to keep them from admitting they love SA, but I for one know that standalone is going to be my only zombie game I keep for the long haul ; Mostly because Ive played them all , looking at multiplayer pvp zombie survival games especially and I have to say dayz is the one with the best potential , graphics, content with quality, and especially content balance (compared to the mod and tons of unbalanced MMOs / multiplayer games this game is balanced pretty well ).

[Mad Scientist 73]

Nice rant mate....

 

As I started I thought it was going to be along the lines of - we have too many weapons and not enough survival...but I was mistaken...

 

Fair enough, the lack of Zombies (infected...) has been a major clusterfuck and it has seen players leave the game in droves. If they don't have zombies in 0.59 (hopefully they can produce with possible dynamic hordes...see the latest status report), I will be taking a break from the game ( i currently have over 2500 hours in the SA...never played the mod).

 

At the moment, with food so abundant, fishing, farming and hunting seem to be a waste of time, but when the game gets closer to release I am hoping that food will be much more scarce, so that you will need to forage or farm/hunt/fish etc to survive...that will be when it becomes a true zombie survival game (notice how i used survival in there...as did you...its not just a zombie game but a zombie survival game).

 

The medical system is still pretty basic: break a leg - morphine or splint; bleeding - bandage, rags or sew (yes sewing...) yourself up; lost blood - IV or blood bag; eat bad food - charcoal tabs

drink bad water - antibiotics...and I think still has a way to go....I am hoping that with the new player controller we will get limping from sprained ankles, you get a broken arm - well u cant use that rifle or fire axe etc

 

Yes you can now make camps, hunt etc and live the life of a hermit...if you want to. If you don't, then don't, but there are people who want that in the game. Does it affect you if you want to PvP in Cherno or Berizino?

 

No.

 

You can still spawn on the beach, kill yourself until you get a good spawn, run up and punch a geared player in the head and take his gear...rinse and repeat. Or, if you want to tackle a horde of Zombies by yourself, go nuts....that's the beauty of a sandbox...you can do what you want.

 

I understand some of your frustration, believe me I am frustrated as hell at the state of the game at the moment, but 0.59 should (it fucking better) bring some massive changes otherwise this game is dead and buried for me....

 

Cheers

[igor-vk 909]

You are both right. I love dayz mod, and I still play it sometimes. But I love content, and lots of it. Mod and SA split their way. Some things that SA now has were available in some sub-mods (paper and matches for fire,crafting bandages and splints, cannibalism, Origins mod now has more detailed vehicle repairing and skills...) Maybe Rocket would do all those things in dayz mod but he got chance to make SA. Truth is that SA sucks at this stage, but it can only improve.

[KenoSkir88 181]

Not even going to bother getting too stuck into to yet another one of these samey threads. You know you can still play the mod if you like right? SA was never supposed to be the same as the mod.

Edited October 26, 2015 by KenoSkir88

[synystr 118]

I don't know. I'm a jaded old DayZ-er that has been playing since May of 2012. 

 

All they had to do was expand on the mod. Make it less clunky, update the graphics, make the zombies a threat... You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

The closer you get to the tedium of reality, it becomes exactly that, tedious. Where do we draw the line?

 

What was wrong with just using a blood bag? No, now you gotta eat 20 cans of beans and gotta go stand next to a pond and spam drink. But not too much or else you'll get stuffed and vomit and then you'll have to start all over again... 

 

Can we just suspend the disbelief and just use a freaking blood bag and get on with playing the game?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Synystr

[SniperV (DayZ) 43]

At first I expected that SA will mostly just move the mod to the new engine and eventually maybe add some new features.

 

I don't mind more complicated mechanics as long as they make sense and work at least decently. From my point of view the major improvements are: opening buildings, inventory system (that is still far from perfect) and that is pretty much it.

 

They have worked on zombies and failed. Old mechanic of zombies spawning in the proximity of players was still better than empty cities and villages.

 

Working on persistence and loot spawning was the right move, but so far it is a mess. Turn on persistence and loot spawning gets crazy with entire empty cities, yet lootsplosions in other places.

 

New melee, to my surprise, is as bad as the old system.

 

Medical system is just different, not more complicated. Crafting is fine. Vehicles are about 1 year behind the schedule. Hunting/fishing/farming is not far from being acceptable.

 

One of the trully new mechanics is the equipment getting damaged. So far that system is broken as fuk.

 

 

Right now it's difficult to say what future holds for DayZ. Status reports are always full of supposably brilliant new mechanics that are WIP, renderer is comming or not, nobody knows at this point. Hopefully, 0.59 will come soon and with awesome changes.

Edited October 26, 2015 by SniperV

[XibaRootS 40]

Aaaaand after two years, i still playing the mod. Dayz Standalone Suuuuuucksss ballls and swalllooooows

[Jex 1104]

I don't agree at all . Standalone is so addicting because it pushes the envelope on realism , attention to detail, and complexity that other games don't . Do you remember how little buildings were enterable in the mod ? Do you remember how we didn't have a "hands up button" until standalone introduced it making encounters in the mod MUCH more shallow and unnecessarily deadly than they ever could be in stabdalone (believe it or not that proximity only voice system makes a difference, you actually yet to interact with some people instead of making friends in global chat )..

Remembering how great the mod was , is a sort of fickle thing to do because what made the mod so great was that it was something that noone had ever done before : open world full loot pvp zombie sandbox environment. Now that standalone and many other games are going down this path there are two points : the first is people expect great things , and naturally standalone is highest on that list because of all this content that the OP despises and all the attention to detail put into the game . The second is that people should be putting their memories into fruition because those that did play the mod remember it for being very clunky , very simple (which OP over praises as a good thing) and very unbalanced (ppl with thermal scoped .50 cal sniper rifles camping the coast because of overly populated gun and vehicle servers .

Long story short , if you want another slapped together shoddy mod quality game then keep the rose colored glasses on but if we wanna see something that is so in depth that we really feel like we're living in the apocalypse then believe in standalone and give it time because although it's taking its sweet as time we know for sure it's going to be the first of its kind in terms of content weighed with quality and attention to detail and that it will keep everyone entertained wether you're a zombie fan or not .

All in all I think people are all very passionate about standalone but everytime a delay comes up people freak out and look for the next thing to keep them from admitting they love SA, but I for one know that standalone is going to be my only zombie game I keep for the long haul ; Mostly because Ive played them all , looking at multiplayer pvp zombie survival games especially and I have to say dayz is the one with the best potential , graphics, content with quality, and especially content balance (compared to the mod and tons of unbalanced MMOs / multiplayer games this game is balanced pretty well ).

 

People also forget how shite the mod was as well. The zombies never worked, they were a joke and the last I was playing the actual official MOD, they were going down a more realistic route. What brought people to the MOD was the apocalypse and survival aspect. I don't think people got that and whilst the MOD was brilliant, it had many issues but it was still amazing fun to play.

 

Now we have the SA we can get a more fulfilling experience but if you released the MOD again today, right now, people would not rush out to play it again. Sorry, nostalgia got you OP and you're remembering the good times which were brought about because it was the first of it's type. You're forgetting all the crap too and unfortunately, that "MOD feeling" isn't going to come back for us Vets I'm afraid. New players to the genre love it though and they'd be the ones we should be asking to see if they feel the same way about the SA as we did about the MOD.

[Jex 1104]

I don't know. I'm a jaded old DayZ-er that has been playing since May of 2012. 

 

All they had to do was expand on the mod. Make it less clunky, update the graphics, make the zombies a threat... You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

The closer you get to the tedium of reality, it becomes exactly that, tedious. Where do we draw the line?

 

What was wrong with just using a blood bag? No, now you gotta eat 20 cans of beans and gotta go stand next to a pond and spam drink. But not too much or else you'll get stuffed and vomit and then you'll have to start all over again... 

 

Can we just suspend the disbelief and just use a freaking blood bag and get on with playing the game?

 

You mean playing the game of surviving in a zombie apocalypse? What "game" are you thinking of that you want to get on with?

[Calvin Candie 189]

All of you are right, no need to show muscle.

Each and every one of us loves DayZ. We have different reasons why. Surival. PvP. Lone wolfing. Hermits. Adrenaline addicts. Whatever. And each and every one of us have a breaking point. When we stop putting up with crap. These threads reoccur when one of us reaches that breaking point. Do not diminish the importance of these threads by posting L2P or good riddance! That guy/gal loves DayZ as much as you do. In fact, so much he/she decided to spill his/her guts to you here.

The fact is, if the next update does not deliver major gameplay improvements in form of zombies being half decent or persistence working or performance improvement, player base will be in serious trouble. And nobody dare point me to Dev Status Report. So many "ifs" and "maybes" I feel like I'm reading kids notes.

With that being said, I still believe that final outcome will be positive.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Calvin Candie

[OrLoK 16182]

hello there

 

We have to remember the DAYZ Mod was not the end result the Devs wanted, although it did appeal to the masses.

 

I think many folk are expecting DAYZ to be more of a "Battle Royale jump in and PvP with added Zeds" sort of experience.

 

That's not what DAYZ was ever about, although one can have that type of experience if one chooses.

 

DAYZ was never community driven although obviously  user/community feedback and input was and *is* valuable.

 

DAYZ is DEV driven.

 

This doesnt mean the devs are blind or deaf to our input, but they have their own singular idea of what DAYZ should be and this is what we are heading towards.

 

Modding will be the thing many folk turn to in the future.

 

Me? I want a survival sim, leaning towards realism with added infected and the occasional PvP. So, for me, DAYZ is on track.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited October 26, 2015 by orlok

[Yuval 221]

hello there

 

We have to remember the DAYZ Mod was not the end result the Devs wanted, although it did appeal to the masses.

 

I think many folk are expecting DAYZ to be more of a "Battle Royale jump in and PvP with added Zeds" sort of experience.

 

That's not what DAYZ was ever about, although one can have that type of experience if one chooses.

 

DAYZ was never community driven although obviously  user/community feedback and input was and *is* valuable.

 

DAYZ is DEV driven.

 

This doesnt mean the devs are blind or deaf to our input, but they have their own singular idea of what DAYZ should be and this is what we are heading towards.

 

Modding will be the thing many folk turn to in the future.

 

Me? I want a survival sim, leaning towards realism with added infected and the occasional PvP. So, for me, DAYZ is on track.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

I don't agree with your opinion and I think whoever doesn't agree with MY opinion is a trash douche who deserves to die by a 200mp\h running mercedes bus, why?

because I'm another retarded dumb who thinks he deserves everything because he paid 30$ to an alpha game.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

It's not often we get a moderators personal opinion on DayZ dev.

 

Nice to hear.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I got into the mod just after the OP and I witnessed the decline into KoS and hacking.

 

By the time I left the mod, if you joined a server with more than 10 people on it you usually ran into a hacker.

 

Being teleported with everyone on the server to a field outside Stary for an instant random death match was no fun.

 

Having cows rain from the sky and explode around me or being shelled by invisible adversaries was no fun.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Those of us with patience and appreciation for the task of the standalone will be rewarded in the end.

 

Even if Vanilla DayZ standalone won;t be to your liking there will probably be a mod you want to play.

 

So many of the conversations on this forum will seem pointless and tedious and will be all but forgotten in the months and years to come.

 

Once the game is feature complete AND balanced all will be made clear.

[Dagwood 680]

Here's what I understand of development thus far:

Dean took the arma 2 game and engine and tweaked it to make the dayz mod. It was like no other game before it, and despite all of the shortcomings and drawbacks, it was universally accepted.

Then they decided to make a standalone game. Initially, I believe the plan was to spend a few hundred grand and polish the mod up, round off some of it's rough edges, and make a quick buck on another installment of the already popular mod.

Then they sold a million copies in one month. Now they had $30 million lying around that they had not anticipated. That small project with a small budget had become BI's most profitable game.

They could have stuck to their original plan and finished the game quickly and not spent too much time or money on it. Instead, they decided to overhaul the entire engine and make dayz a full scale title with unique engine etc. It's like deciding to invest $10,000 into turning your 2001 honda civic into a street racer, and then all of a sudden you have $500,000. Do you dump that $$$ into your low potential civic, or do you scrap some of it's parts and install them into a new Subaru?

Dayz's development has been retarded by the huge influx of cash that the initial alpha release brough with it, but ultimately, we will be rewarded with a much better final product. Just gotta be patient until we get there.

[pilgrim* 3513]

^

Yes BioHaze very true it was the hackers killed the Mod for me; it ended up there was just no way you could actually play it anymore.

 

Also as Jexter says, when the Mod came out it was a completely new different game with a new feeling, so no one can bring that back

it didn't matter much how 'crazy' or messy it was - just being in the game was geat at that time - it was groundbreaking.

Then to make the SA they had to start fresh, even just to deal with the hacker opportunities built in to ArmA and the Mod.

 

so now IMO

- the SA does not want to become a kind of minecraft where you combine 5 objects to make one object, and combine 2 of these to make another of those, etc etc (as Synystr says)

- it does not want to become a CoD on a large map where you log in to PvP, so "gearing-up" is a pain in the neck (or just part of the PvP); there are better 100% PvP games if you want only fast action.

 

So it definitely needs a big zombie threat - maybe a combination of not-very-smart "almost -Mod-style" zombies to make up some numbers PLUS some more interesting and dangerous better AI zombs to increase risk and danger - that combination could keep down the processing power needed, and also populate the map with a good number of interesting zombies  ?

 

Also the game definitely needs plenty of loot-searching and survival aspects. But making complex equipment or survival gear should not be totally 'unavoidable' - just "useful"  

- Then if you want to get into 'complex' survival - you can do, but you don't need to, and if you want to go looking for PvP you can do, but you don't need to.. and bothways the zombies will be around to mess you up sooner or later.

 

For me, one big interest of the Mod was how unexpected the incidents and events were in any game session - you never knew what would happen next. This was the excitement and I guess this is the best balance to keep.

- example : no one can say eg Minecraft OR CoD are full of "unexpected" events, they are both games you know exactly what gameplay to expect, that's why you log in.

 

so orlok's: "a survival sim, leaning towards realism with added infected and the occasional PvP" seems right to me as the core of the game, so long as you can still go to one extreme or the other (if you try), and live in the woods or fight in the city, as you like. It's the mix of possibilities - and the mix of players - that makes the game exciting and iteresting.

 

Encouraging cooperation is good (part of the original concept) but encouraging "team-play" with (what are in practice) CoD style teams on TS3 is sad/bad IMO. In fact that discourages in-game cooperation. Unfortunately, out-of-game comms are standard now, so there's not much to do about that?. Most ( ALL ) of recent games are weighted towards team and buddy play. IMO this is boring. This means weighted towards private servers, closed-team play, and reducing the possibility of "meeting" other players in the game.

Edited October 26, 2015 by pilgrim

[ToxicHeart 34]

I will be the first to admit that I'm a "fanboy". I've been following the development of the game since 2013 and while I've still not been able to afford a computer capable of running the game... I'm steadily working towards that goal.

And here's why...

IMO the devs can take as much time as they need (within reason) to hash out the mechanics and programming the zeds into mass numbers and I'll still be happy once they're back in.

Dayz is the only game I know of where you can go "hermit" in the woods, only to find yourself captured, stripped, poisoned, or injured and set free by some lunatic player who decided he had nothing better to do.

OR attempt to take a city for your own, fully intent on clearing any unsuspecting wanderer of their loot, only to end up making a friend...

I've seen both of these scenarios play out in random youtube videos, and it's that vast contrast of game play that has had me obsessed with this game for so long without even being able to play it.

One day though... one day.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Heartlessxwolf

[synystr 118]

hello there

 

We have to remember the DAYZ Mod was not the end result the Devs wanted, although it did appeal to the masses.

 

I think many folk are expecting DAYZ to be more of a "Battle Royale jump in and PvP with added Zeds" sort of experience.

 

That's not what DAYZ was ever about, although one can have that type of experience if one chooses.

 

DAYZ was never community driven although obviously  user/community feedback and input was and *is* valuable.

 

DAYZ is DEV driven.

 

This doesnt mean the devs are blind or deaf to our input, but they have their own singular idea of what DAYZ should be and this is what we are heading towards.

 

Modding will be the thing many folk turn to in the future.

 

Me? I want a survival sim, leaning towards realism with added infected and the occasional PvP. So, for me, DAYZ is on track.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

Oh so I payed 30 bucks for an early access alpha so the devs can make a game THEY want to play? Fantastic... Where is the refund button? That has to be the best business plan I have ever heard. Turn away from what was popular with the masses to appeal to a small community. haha

 

 

You mean playing the game of surviving in a zombie apocalypse? What "game" are you thinking of that you want to get on with?

 

Yes, believe it or not, it is a computer game. You are the exact person who I am talking about.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Synystr

[Kirby12352 67]

I will be the first to admit that I'm a "fanboy". I've been following the development of the game since 2013 and while I've still not been able to afford a computer capable of running the game... I'm steadily working towards that goal.

And here's why...

IMO the devs can take as much time as they need (within reason) to hash out the mechanics and programming the zeds into mass numbers and I'll still be happy once they're back in.

Dayz is the only game I know of where you can go "hermit" in the woods, only to find yourself captured, stripped, poisoned, or injured and set free by some lunatic player who decided he had nothing better to do.

OR attempt to take a city for your own, fully intent on clearing any unsuspecting wanderer of their loot, only to end up making a friend...

I've seen both of these scenarios play out in random youtube videos, and it's that vast contrast of game play that has had me obsessed with this game for so long without even being able to play it.

One day though... one day.

 

 

You can go hermit in the woods and get attacked by a lunatic on basically every online survival game ever made. Just saying.

[Deathlove 2280]

I haven't forgotten my roots. Im as white as a god damn polar bear.

 

But on topic i would say the Mod is still very fun to play its just for the Standalone the pieces have yet to fall into place. Im hopping once they do it will provide just as much hours as what the mod gives me currently with replay value.

 

I do really enjoy the realism they have been giving us with guns though with the Standalone. However im still waiting to see how this crafting system is going to play out beyond what we cant currently make in game.

 

So it definitely needs a big zombie threat - maybe a combination of not-very-smart "almost -Mod-style" zombies to make up some numbers PLUS some more interesting and dangerous better AI zombs to increase risk and danger - that combination could keep down the processing power needed, and also populate the map with a good number of interesting zombies  ?

 

Some kind of mutant zeds would be nice for increased danger like the Blood Drinkers in Namalsk.

[OrLoK 16182]

Oh so I payed 30 bucks for an early access alpha so the devs can make a game THEY want to play? Fantastic... Where is the refund button? That has to be the best business plan I have ever heard. Turn away from what was popular with the masses to appeal to a small community. haha

Hello there

 

You expected the devs to make a game specifically for you?

 

DAYZ was and always has been promoted as a niche game. I think you'll find most game devs make the game "they" want.

 

Rdgs

 

LoK

[Kirby12352 67]

Oh so I payed 30 bucks for an early access alpha so the devs can make a game THEY want to play? Fantastic... Where is the refund button? That has to be the best business plan I have ever heard. Turn away from what was popular with the masses to appeal to a small community. haha

 

 

 

Yes, believe it or not, it is a computer game. You are the exact person who I am talking about.

 

 

Do you expect the devs to completely abandon the idea they had in mind for their game, just based on what the community wants? The community's role is to help develop the game the devs had in mind, NOT to make a completely different game. The idea for the game was set in stone from the start. If people want a completely different game, they should go play something else.

[ToxicHeart 34]

Perhaps I should have mentioned that this game allows that variety of interacting plus infected... (when they get put back in)

Even aside from those two interactions, there is still a myriad of other "events" that can occur in SA that very few games can come close to offering.

But I'm digressing to my "fanboying"...

(Better than pointing out that people could just quot whining and go play those "other" games. :p. )

Edited October 26, 2015 by Heartlessxwolf

[Jex 1104]

Yes, believe it or not, it is a computer game. You are the exact person who I am talking about.

 

Your perception may be off though you didn't answer the question - what "game" do you think DayZ should be?