Gameplay vs Realism

[zevenstorms 3]

Hello dear ladies and gentlemen of Dayz SA,

 

I have a request that involves the gameplay of Dayz and some critique in the way it is evolving.

First of I have lots of fun while playing Dayz so this is not some hate rambling out of frustration but I think the game lately aims to much on the realism of an actual zombie apocalypse and to less on the actual gameplay of playing and enjoying a game. In which I have some small points.

 

First of there are quite few range weapons in Dayz and ammo is just as rare. While in a real zombie apocalypse this is true, in game it is a lot less fun to play a game of 'run for the zombies' in stead of being able to combat them. I understand that we have enough melee weapons to really combat the zombies but this brings me to a second problem where people who, after long searching, found a range weapon immediately have an unfair advantage over people who don't. And are able to make a monopoly in these ranged weapons because they can camp the very few places that spawn them. Making the game quite predictable in finding other players (mostly around the military bases) and not being able to combat them because of your lack of weapon. I noticed in your update video you are going to aim on hunting, which will probably never happen with rifles because they are far to rare and no one would want to waist a bullet on some food if you can find food more commonly than you can find ammo. Don't get me wrong, I don't think dayz should turn in to a CoD but this will probably never happen because of the vast amount of space.

 

I also noticed you are able to break your legs, while this sounds realistic. The chance of finding the materials to fix your legs in 1 town is quite rare, and the fun of crawling to another city is as entertaining as fishing in my own bathtub. Resulting almost always in a finding a suicide spot. Which is not always find able in a town.

 

All in all I think there is basically to less stuff to for fill the pleasure your designing team is aiming at with features like 'hunting' and 'broken legs'. Adding features like cars will probably have the same problem: scouting hours and hours for parts in different towns just to make 1 vehicle and get shot in the head before entering it.

 

tl;dr - I think the design team needs to refocus on gameplay and fun instead of realism.

 

[So Sexy 259]

Well sir, if you want less realism, feel free to join the Warz crew.

[Nicko2580 398]

 

tl;dr - I think the design team needs to refocus on gameplay and fun instead of realism

 

This is not the game for you. Feel free to go and play something else. There are so many other dumbed down hand holders out there for you to enjoy.

As for guns being rare? Please... don't make me laugh. They're far too common as it is. That tells me you hang around the main areas on the coast and the airfields/military bases. Of course they're rare there that's where everyone goes. 

Last night I found 3x shotguns, 2x Blaze, 1x Magnum, 1x FNX, 1x Mosin and 3x SKS in one play through on a server with 34 people on it... You're just not looking in the right places.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Nicko2580

[Disgraced 1123]

There is no such thing as realism. It's a fallacious argument.

Of course it's not realistic. One either likes a feature or dislikes it. One either likes what the game mechanics call for or doesn't.

I'm fine with it.

[zevenstorms 3]

I have played arma2: dayz, which is a lot more exciting because danger could be lurking from every bush, because rifles are a bit more common. Giving critique to a game doesn't mean you should directly step to another game, even if you guys meant that in a friendly way.
I understand that the weapon part is arguable, but does anyone enjoy the broken legs part? I mean there is so less stuff in a town to fix your legs you have to crawl from 1 town to a next and be lucky enough to fix your legs. You are better of to suicide.

[Nicko2580 398]

I have played arma2: dayz, which is a lot more exciting because danger could be lurking from every bush, because rifles are a bit more common. Giving critique to a game doesn't mean you should directly step to another game, even if you guys meant that in a friendly way.

I understand that the weapon part is arguable, but does anyone enjoy the broken legs part? I mean there is so less stuff in a town to fix your legs you have to crawl from 1 town to a next and be lucky enough to fix your legs. You are better of to suicide.

Yes, I enjoy the broken legs. It makes me very careful not to break them in the first place, rather than rushing around and jumping from unrealistic heights. It means that I have to think about whether I want to take those sticks now and use up some backpack space, incase I break my legs later, or just hope that I don't. So far I've broken my legs three times in 50 hours, so it's not like it's happening every second. 

Also it's very good that you can shoot people in the leg and break it. That allows you to immobilise other players with a good shot and rewards accuracy, especially if you want their loot.

If it worries you that much, carry a piece of rotten fruit with you and use it as a 'suicide pill' in the event of a broken leg.

[zevenstorms 3]

Guess it cant be argued.
Very well then, carry on.

[mithrawndo 166]

If it worries you that much, carry a piece of rotten fruit with you and use it as a 'suicide pill' in the event of a broken leg.

 

Just to weigh in on this; I do hope they hurry up with effective suicide methods once we have the tools at our disposal. I'm not suggesting you should be able to club yourself to death with a spade, but a gun, knife, epipen (fatal when used incorrectly) and morphine could all legitimately be used to end one's own life - always a valid choice in a survival situation, and incredibly fitting in a zombie apocalypse. Can't think of many popular franchises within the genre that don't include suicide.

 

To the op: I don't speak from authority, but I do get the impression that the fun is to come from human interaction in this game. The design lead keeps talking about the "multiplayer experience" and so you should perhaps begin to think in terms of MMO-style "fun" as opposed to actual, genuine, honest-to-goodness-computer-game-with-your-mates-fun - That's to say not fun at all, but in fact masochistic flagellation in repentance for your gaming sins.

 

Welcome to DayZ.

 

Edit: Formatting. Stupid copy paste takes the colours from the background. Don't you love WYSIWYG editors?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Mithrawndo

[zevenstorms 3]

 

To the op: I don't speak from authority, but I do get the impression that the fun is to come from human interaction in this game. The design lead keeps talking about the "multiplayer experience" and so you should perhaps begin to think in terms of MMO-style "fun" as opposed to actual, genuine, honest-to-goodness-computer-game-with-your-mates-fun - That's to say not fun at all, but in fact masochistic flagellation in repentance for your gaming sins.

I can't say I didn't quite get that part. I apologize, but English isn't my native language so can you please help me on this one :)

[doublebrain 255]

These advantages for people with guns are ment to be there. Guys with guns and you have only a shovel? Better hide. If they find you better pray and ask them not to kill you. Thats a big part of DayZ and if you "only" like the PvP with guns thats maybe realy the wrong game for you. (guess that has been said enough times already but whatsoever)

[mithrawndo 166]

No problem Zeven.

 

What I was trying to say is that it appears this game is not fun by design. Many design decisions are deliberately obtuse (such as the leg breaking) and so playing the game is akin to self flagellation - the act of whipping oneself. I think to enjoy this game you must first learn to enjoy punishing yourself, so that when these things happen you can take a relaxed approach and learn from your mistakes.

 

If you find yourself wanting to switch the game off when bad things happen, perhaps the game isn't ideal for you.

[Nicko2580 398]

No problem Zeven.

 

What I was trying to say is that it appears this game is not fun by design. Many design decisions are deliberately obtuse (such as the leg breaking) and so playing the game is akin to self flagellation - the act of whipping oneself. I think to enjoy this game you must first learn to enjoy punishing yourself, so that when these things happen you can take a relaxed approach and learn from your mistakes.

 

If you find yourself wanting to switch the game off when bad things happen, perhaps the game isn't ideal for you.

^ this.

To enjoy this game you have to enjoy difficulty and challenge. You have to enjoy torturing yourself by taking 20 minutes scoping out a tiny town in the middle of no where, just to make sure its safe. You have to enjoy being ambushed, being shot on sight, being handcuffed and tortured, spending hours looking for ammo for your SKS and only finding Mosin rounds... You have to enjoy surviving and surviving should and always will be a challenge and a pain in your ass.

 If you're looking for a fun PvP shooter, then you're better off with another game because that's not what DayZ is about. 

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Given that DayZ is supposed to be a sandbox simulation of an apocalyptic situation, I'd certainly hope it will be as realistic as it can be and authentic with some 'creative licence' for gameplay reasons where absolute realism is just too much. In fact, if it takes significant steps away from realism, I'll stop playing because a large part of the draw for me is the fact that it's somewhat realistic.

 

Some people don't like the realism and that's fine, but they and others shouldn't get all offended when people suggest it's not the game for them. It simply isn't. And asking for the game to be made easier so that it suits them goes against the core ethos of the game, which spoils the fun for the people that do like it realistic.

 

If you don't like the core features of the game, then stop playing it because you will only end up frustrated and bitter. Play something else that you get enjoyment from, it's a far more productive use of your time. If there is nothing else then you either have to learn to enjoy the core features or make your own game*.

 

*I say this because I have had ideas since playing DayZ that, if made, would likely make DayZ seem like a teddy bear's picnic. Problem is, I would likely have to write an engine as nothing I can think of can do what I want to do and I have exactly zero game coding knowledge.

[ddmankiller 14]

Go play the original DayZ vanilla with no added stuff. Decent guns are rare and vehicles are SUPER rare. Took me a month and I remember finding my first car, a lada. I nearly cried :lol:

[GiantofBabil 7]

Just give me the ability to respawn at any time, that's all I want. Irritating that I have to crawl to find a zombie to kill me if I break my leg at a farmhouse way off in the woods and I'm alone.

[mgc 92]

Ranged weapons:

get 1

 

Ammo:

I have enough ammo to kill a 1000 Z. (but i prefer my axe)

 

""in game it is a lot less fun to play a game of 'run for the zombies' in stead of being able to combat them.""

I would like to occasionally see Z so numerous that the best option would be to run. Imo that's fun.

 

""unfair advantage""

Nope, completely fair.

The only way it would be unfair is if the guy with the gun didn't get it legit.

 

""they can camp the very few places that spawn them.""

If you know where they are likely to be, it becomes a lot easier to kill / avoid them.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

For broken legs, the only place I have found sticks are those stable like buildings, which have stairs and a little room upstairs, sticks are usually found on ground level.

As for guns, they probably have the right amount spawning, maybe reduce slightly, however ammo needs reducing by more than half. I play an average of 1-2 hours a day, I have no problem to fully gear myself with 2 rifles, 2 pistols, and enough food and water. In an apocalypse, this is very highly unlikely, especially weapons. I want a little more struggle from lack of food, and zombies, not from other players just because they have ammo in abundance and are bored.

[yogi92 50]

Well I see why OP started the topic and I agree that with some features DayZ just goes too far. I know it's supposed to be realistic and difficult and blah blah blah, but fun alway needs to be considered as well. Hearts attack is (in my opinion) to much because it leads to adding other diseases and in the end we will get random deaths of cancer, strokes, AIDS and God knows what. It's just not necessery.

As for broken legs, I have no problem with it, as it works properly. Just two days ago I broke my leg while walking up the stairs in firestation.  But if you remember to keep rags and sticks in your backpack, it's fine. Just some basic precaustions.

Speaking of guns, we do need guns to be more rare and ammo even more rare. Right now SKS ammo is more popular than food. This way you need about 10-15 minutes to get enough ammo to kill each and every zombie on map and commit 3 murders on every player. So guns and ammo (especially military-grade) should be uber rare, while some basic, civilian weapons like small caliber pistols, shotguns and single shot rifles could be more common. But all this should not happen until damage system is fixed. I had quite a situation at Balona recently, I had an m4 and was hiding in bushes. I was discovered by guy with axes. And guess what, I had to run from him, and when I finally stoped and put about 10 bullets in guys chest, nothing happened. Absolutely. He was running in straight line towards me and he didn't fucking die. He just kept running and provided my with an axe headshot. Another day I was with my friends in Electro (5 guys with guns) and were attacked by a man with axe. Really? Guy with axe running at 5 armed survivors? Ok, whatever. But how the hell did he survive a full frontal 5 meters shotgun shot?

Long story short, we need to fix weapons damage (this involves making wrenches and machetes actually deal serious damage)  first and then make high-tier weapons uber rare and add some weaker civilian weapons to be found (with some searching). Ammo then should be a treasure for you. You got a 30 rounds mag for your m4 - you're a badass, but don't be so happy as you won't find another in next few days.

[Mukaparska 55]

No way... It's not survival if guns are that common. 

[minime1000 78]

Game is 3rd person which is arcade as hell so you shouldn't expect too much realism. Realistically there should be way more hunting ammo but from a gameplay viewpoint that wouldn't be very survivalish.

 

But yeah, no need to worry about super realistic stuff being put in. They won't. It would lose the appeal of a 3rd person survival shooter.

[Gdaddy22 299]

realism =/= lack of gameplay fun

gameplay fun =/= lack of realism

 

we can have a realistic game that has a fun gameplay

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Why do people try and turn this game into COD, Arma or Battlefield, this game will never be as good as those games in shooting department, and that's not aim of the devs, this is a survival game. If you want infinite ammo, super guns that blow everything up, you have purchased the wrong game.

Survival is boring, there is no fun in looking for food, fearing for your life. Not one complaint on these forums about infinite sprinting time, everyone wants snipers and guns, yet they claim they want realism.

[Spinikar 0]

This is not the game for you. Feel free to go and play something else. There are so many other dumbed down hand holders out there for you to enjoy.

As for guns being rare? Please... don't make me laugh. They're far too common as it is. That tells me you hang around the main areas on the coast and the airfields/military bases. Of course they're rare there that's where everyone goes. 

Last night I found 3x shotguns, 2x Blaze, 1x Magnum, 1x FNX, 1x Mosin and 3x SKS in one play through on a server with 34 people on it... You're just not looking in the right places.

 

I agree with this post. Weapons are WAY to common. I reckon they need to tweak this down a bit more, especially with the heavy weapons like the M4, mosin and sks. Pistols could stay as they are.

[Phantom Xavier 3]

I just want to go on record saying that I have never broken my legs in the SA... yet.

 

I couldn't just do it on accident, I would have either get shot or try.

There's a certain level of adrenaline you get when faced with a real person in a simulator that is trying to be as real as possible.

Dying in DayZ is not like dying in CoD or BF where you just wait through a timer and get a loadout. You have to work for your gear.

The adrenaline is comparable to getting a high kill streak, but suspense and tension add to this because that's your hard earned gear.

In DayZ, the human element is a lot stronger as often the only monsters you are faced with are real people trying to survive in real conditions.

If you want a game that focuses more on game-play than realism, try the old mod.

 

DayZ is paving the way towards an MMO Survival Horror Sim, Not an FPS Survival Competition Match-Maker. More guns and less realism is not going to make anyone happy. Removing features for the sake of catering to people that don't like them when a majority have come to appreciate the feature isnt either. 

 

TL;DR No offense, but to me this seems less of a suggestion and more of a complaint.

[eleventhavenue 204]

Am I the only one who heavily dislikes all this ´´realism vs fun´´ talking...?

It assumes that less realism objectively leads to more fun and vice versa...

Edited March 28, 2014 by EleventhAvenue