Lets discuss what is 'Cheating' and what isn't

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Teamspeak is clearly cheating. As stated it allows you to communicate without being in close proximity to someone. Additionally texting or messaging your friends to ask them if they want to play with you is cheating. Running places is a huge focus of this game. If you want to play with your real life friends you need to run to their house (in real life), let them know you're going to get on when you get back, then run home. Otherwise you alert them that you're going to be online, and possibly tell them where your character is in game and on what server, without letting their roommates or spouses or other people in their house hear you and what you're doing. This gives you a tactical advantage. 

 

 

+1

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

cheating is knowingly putting yourself on the upper hand by using bugs or other codes, scripts, mods, playing a game it is not meant to be played.
trading is no cheating, neither is changing gamma settings.

But changing gamma settings is morally wrong, cheating is a general thing, though moral is different from one to another.
 

[Ozelot (DayZ) 394]

What people think is cheating doesn't matter unless they are an admin.

 

Your opinion about it is irrelevant.

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

What people think is cheating doesn't matter unless they are an admin.

 

Your opinion about it is irrelevant.

well for me it does not matter what admins and other people think about

what cheating really is, because I know it.

but those who dont know might benefit from a discussion and therefore

opinions are helpful.

Thank you for your input !

[AJ4211 30]

Thank god someone knows the difference between an exploit and a cheat. Just to dumb it down even more for the "special kids":

A cheat is something that isn't "available" to other players through the game.

An exploit (or cheating as so many people call it) is readily "available" for anybody to abuse.

 

In regards to your friend and his logic, if the world does end IRL, I would be very wary of him.

[pacific_coast 632]

ok aradia i will respond to your OP:

 

what is cheating in dayz (obvs hax is obvs):

 

 

using macro's and keybinds.

3PP wall glitching and corner peeking.

1PP wall glitching and corner peeking.

gamma exploiting at night.

 

what is not cheating in dayz:

 

using teamspeak/voip.

looking at the full map on another screen/ alt tabbing.

getting geared up by friends.

playing on a modded server.

 

cheating is an advantage gained exluding your peers

if everyone can gamma/3pp exploit then there is no cheating truly, but it is enough of an exploit for me to consider it in bad spirit and not legit

anyone can teamspeak or play with friends or play on a modded server, so it's even

 

my purism wanes a little in this game, for it's all out survival to me, but there is some things i still wont do

[pacific_coast 632]

What people think is cheating doesn't matter unless they are an admin.

 

Your opinion about it is irrelevant.

you did not read the original post.

 

you are a fail @ dayz forums

[ThaMac 24]

To me, anything that is clearly not intended to give you a benefit is cheating and any 3rd party software might be considered cheating also.

 

1: Modding game=cheating (even singleplayer games but there no one including me cares, but you still cheated :P)

2: Changing visuals so you can see in the dark=cheating (its obviously not intended for you to jack up your gamma/brightness so you can see in the dark)

3: serverhopping=cheating

4: TeamSpeak=Cheating (its a feature that oters in the game don't have (talking while others can't hear you and talking over large distances))

 

But anything "Game" related that is a INTENDED mechanic in the game and can be used for a benefit is just gameplay imo.

1: Trading=Part of the online experience. otherwise they would not allow items to be traded.... DUH....

2: Bandaging others is an intended feature.

 

 

Having said all that, I have turned off postproccessing to be able to see further, jack up my Gamma like mad when its dark, change my FOV before sniping, use teamspeak etc. All those things I consider "cheating" I do myself . But they are not the way the game is "meant to be played" if you understand what I mean. And just having a global chat would fix my teamspeak argument because then people could all communicate :D

[River Lizard 47]

I wonder.....opening up files and making changes to parts of it on your hard drive.....  it's clearly not what they wanted you to do since these files were made by the dev's.

[Karmaterror 982]

Hahahah the mods for SP games in op being cheating made me laugh. I got a lot of mods for fallout geared around making it harder/more realistic. Am I cheating for using these? As a general rule of thumb I stay away from mod armour and weapons in that game, as most are overpowered (edited stats) super gear. I think that's what the guy ment with mods, finding the good immersive ones can be hard.....but worth it when ya do :)

 

For dayz I say gamma is a cheat....even tho we could all turn it on. That pitch black with nothing but a cone of torchlight is awesome. Most realistic night iv ever seen on a game. Trading is part of dayz.....its always a big risk and souse of tension/excitement. Also helping others is a valid playstyle, so having someone bandage you isn't cheating in my eyes.

 

The only main "cheats" in dayz are script driven....which is a shame....scripts can be used for good aswell as evil....dayz mod was built on em :(

 

EDIT - Oh and as for PP off.....yes that's a cheat. The blurry vision puts you at a disadvantage (as having lowHP/Injured survivor should. For people getting headaches or w/e with it....stop trying to focus harder and see "through" the blur.....will only end in headache, Just relax, take more time approaching a target area, make 10x more observations and use less RMB.

 

In short its fine....you should be at a big disadvantage when on low HP (especially now that we can just heal over time) ;)

Edited March 17, 2014 by Karmaterror

[pacific_coast 632]

i'd say its more of a purist mindset to playing the game

as apposed to "cheating"

but any advantage can be interpreted as cheating.

[Window Licker 504]

Well there's cheating in the sense of wall, teleport, infinite ammo hack/scripts, there's no grey area there obviously, then it's the wall and floor glitcher's who stand in my head in the exact same area, we have the dupers who are also deserving of a solid kick to the genitals. Gamma and brightness are cheating, but much like the glitches there isn't anything that we can do about it right now except not play night servers which is a shame because I'm either forced to do something I consider wrong, be murdered without even having a chance or not play on night servers. This for me is pretty annoying because I love the creepiness and the extra care to ensure I don't get seen elements of the night servers.

 

TS stands on it's own, there's nothing the dev team or anyone else can do to prevent it's use and honestly while I don't use it personally I don't care and haven't taken the time to consider whether or not I considered it cheating until

[pacific_coast 632]

ts is not cheating

 

it should be used to get noobs through the learning curve

[Wyrmgol 26]

I'm going to start this thread with a slightly scary story of someone I met, so beware.

 

I'm pretty sure I met this guy on TF2 (His name will remain anonymous), and he was pretty cool. After I figured out he had games like Risk of Rain and Starbound, I naturally played with him. While we were playing Starbound, I tried to trade with him.

He traded an instrument for my instrument, but when I tried to trade him for one of his weapons, which was inferior to him but rather balanced for me, he refused. Why?

 

He considered it CHEATING.

 

This threw me into an argument with him, which allowed me to unearth his (broken) logic-

 

Trading, modding, getting items from friends, that was all cheating to him.

 

Do I agree with him? Hell no.

 

According to this man's logic, anytime your friend gives you some ammunition or bandages you in DayZ, you're cheating. Anytime you trade your M4 for your friend's SKS, you're cheating. Anytime you modify a singleplayer game, like, say, Half Life or Fallout New Vegas, you're CHEATING.

 

It is very obvious that this isn't really cheating to most people and it shouldn't be considered cheating, ever, as mods and player interaction such as trading is a wonderful thing to have in a game that shouldn't be considered an exploit.

 

What am I getting at here?

 

A lot of people seem to consider gamma magic night vision an exploit in DayZ. Is it?

Well, yeah, but at least there is a bit of reason behind using it:

• Everyone can use this exploit as well, easily. Not using it puts yourself at risk.
• The flashlight is currently clunky and hard to use.

Some people seem to consider turning off Post Processing in DayZ makes you an exploiter as well. Do I agree?

Hell no. Yes, let me keep on a setting that adds annoying blur and depth of field when I could play the game without such annoying features. Throw in a forced setting that fucks up your vision when you get shot, though, that would be great.

 

Is there anything you guys consider cheating that others may not consider cheating?

 

btw we all know that server hopping /. combat logging is a serious exploit and that it is a cheat and those who use it should be just a tad ashamed of themselves, just a tad

 

 

 

.

It's called "self-found" and is more prevalent in looting games like action RPGs (diablo etc).

I can see how this type of gaming could be easily applied to DayZ as well.

 

I doubt he was calling you a cheater though, it's just the way he has chosen to play certain games to challenge himself.

He probably won't even trade between his own characters even if there is a common bank between them.

[Jex 1104]

OP the guy you talked to was an idiot.

 

Using gamma is an exploit and we all use it because we know other people use it. Preferably I'd like it that it couldn't be changed but we all saw night at the same level (never gonna happen) just so we can experience night as it should be.

 

giving your friend a weapon or bandaging which is clearly part of the game and calling that cheating is fucking retarded and god knows what this person thinks about other things in life - totally misinformed.

 

I'd say 3rd person is getting close to cheating, it's certainly an exploit (that Rocket said would be addressed) even though I play on and use 3rd person (shitty fps keep me from going full 1st person, being able to watch my avatar help the motion sickness that I never get playing games but the fps is that bad). I don't like that I can sit behind something and magically peer over it without any risk to myself and it's a lazy and easy way to camp (I don't camp btw).

 

I would say cheating is using an external source that allows you an advantage over other players such as making all the trees and houses invisible to you or putting a glowing outline over every player that shows through objects or using an aimbot. This also includes running scripts in Arma like when we had people turning into cows and "thunder dome". Although scripts are part of arma, they were never part of DayZ Mod and thus are external to the game and it's intentions.

[UNDERWORLD 76]

If it's a function in game (Gamma etc) it's not cheating. 

[StoutAle 69]

  I think people make up there own rules for "cheating" based on what THEY are willing to do.

 

Gamma adjusting.. not cheating. Reason it's not, anyone can do it.  It's not an UNFAIR advantage if everyone can do it.

TS? Not cheating.  DayZ runs on Steam.  Me and my friends use Steam voice chat and it works just fine.  Anyone can do it.

Trading with others, having friends gear you, server hopping etc etc etc isn't cheating because anyone can do it that means the "unfair advantage" isn't really there.

 

People are confusing what they think the game should be or the morals they put on themselves with cheating.

 

I think playing the game without a voice chat with real life friends is silly because half of the time we are talking about non game related stuff anyway.  It's just giving friends a chance to talk and not be bored.  Does it help if we are engaged in a firefight? Sure, not saying it doesn't.  Is that the reason we use it? Not at all.  Can anyone use it? Yes, if you run Steam you can use the voice chat just like we do.

 

On the rare occasion I played on a night server I used a weapon flashlight to see, I didn't adjust the gamma.  It was dark, really dark, like can't see loot at all dark.  People can argue how dark it actually gets outside all they want and depending on where you are it is different.  Anyone who says it doesn't get pitch black out simply hasn't ever experienced it, it does exist.  None of that matters though because while changing the gamma to see is weak and not how it is intended to be played it's not actually cheating because anyone can do it, hence once again the "unfair advantage" isn't there. 

 

If you hack to teleport around or get gear you didn't find that's cheating.  Everything I named can be done with the software loaded on the computer to play the game either in game or  through Steam, hacking the game with other software is cheating.  Using what's given to you in the game might be weak, it might not be how some play and you might be making the game easier then intended but it's not "cheating" IMO (and based on the actual definition of the word).

[CrazyCorky 40]

  I think people make up there own rules for "cheating" based on what THEY are willing to do.

 

Gamma adjusting.. not cheating. Reason it's not, anyone can do it.  It's not an UNFAIR advantage if everyone can do it.

TS? Not cheating.  DayZ runs on Steam.  Me and my friends use Steam voice chat and it works just fine.  Anyone can do it.

Trading with others, having friends gear you, server hopping etc etc etc isn't cheating because anyone can do it that means the "unfair advantage" isn't really there.

 

People are confusing what they think the game should be or the morals they put on themselves with cheating.

 

I think playing the game without a voice chat with real life friends is silly because half of the time we are talking about non game related stuff anyway.  It's just giving friends a chance to talk and not be bored.  Does it help if we are engaged in a firefight? Sure, not saying it doesn't.  Is that the reason we use it? Not at all.  Can anyone use it? Yes, if you run Steam you can use the voice chat just like we do.

 

On the rare occasion I played on a night server I used a weapon flashlight to see, I didn't adjust the gamma.  It was dark, really dark, like can't see loot at all dark.  People can argue how dark it actually gets outside all they want and depending on where you are it is different.  Anyone who says it doesn't get pitch black out simply hasn't ever experienced it, it does exist.  None of that matters though because while changing the gamma to see is weak and not how it is intended to be played it's not actually cheating because anyone can do it, hence once again the "unfair advantage" isn't there. 

 

If you hack to teleport around or get gear you didn't find that's cheating.  Everything I named can be done with the software loaded on the computer to play the game either in game or  through Steam, hacking the game with other software is cheating.  Using what's given to you in the game might be weak, it might not be how some play and you might be making the game easier then intended but it's not "cheating" IMO (and based on the actual definition of the word).

 

IMO best explanation yet. If it's available to every to use in the game then it's not cheating. However hacks are completely different as it is changing files in the game to give you a great advantage over some one else.

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

well, considering that there is nighttime in dayz, and you spawn with a flashlight and battery, it is meant to be played at night.
otherwise they wouldnt give you a working flashlight, neither would they have a nighttime brought into the game.

If they wanted you to change the gamma settings to see better at night, they would not have brought it in.
Nighttime fighting is a different kind and those who practise at it, earn to have an advantage in that field.
 

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

I'm going to start this thread with a slightly scary story of someone I met, so beware.

 

I'm pretty sure I met this guy on TF2 (His name will remain anonymous), and he was pretty cool. After I figured out he had games like Risk of Rain and Starbound, I naturally played with him. While we were playing Starbound, I tried to trade with him.

He traded an instrument for my instrument, but when I tried to trade him for one of his weapons, which was inferior to him but rather balanced for me, he refused. Why?

 

He considered it CHEATING.

 

This threw me into an argument with him, which allowed me to unearth his (broken) logic-

 

Trading, modding, getting items from friends, that was all cheating to him.

 

Do I agree with him? Hell no.

 

According to this man's logic, anytime your friend gives you some ammunition or bandages you in DayZ, you're cheating. Anytime you trade your M4 for your friend's SKS, you're cheating. Anytime you modify a singleplayer game, like, say, Half Life or Fallout New Vegas, you're CHEATING.

 

It is very obvious that this isn't really cheating to most people and it shouldn't be considered cheating, ever, as mods and player interaction such as trading is a wonderful thing to have in a game that shouldn't be considered an exploit.

 

What am I getting at here?

 

A lot of people seem to consider gamma magic night vision an exploit in DayZ. Is it?

Well, yeah, but at least there is a bit of reason behind using it:

• Everyone can use this exploit as well, easily. Not using it puts yourself at risk.
• The flashlight is currently clunky and hard to use.

Some people seem to consider turning off Post Processing in DayZ makes you an exploiter as well. Do I agree?

Hell no. Yes, let me keep on a setting that adds annoying blur and depth of field when I could play the game without such annoying features. Throw in a forced setting that fucks up your vision when you get shot, though, that would be great.

 

Is there anything you guys consider cheating that others may not consider cheating?

 

btw we all know that server hopping /. combat logging is a serious exploit and that it is a cheat and those who use it should be just a tad ashamed of themselves, just a tad

 

 

 

.

 

You fail to make a fundamental distinction between exploiting and cheating. Exploiting is not cheating, cheating is not exploiting. Both things are problematic, sure, but you cannot equate them like that.

 

Cheating = Using third party programs, or altering game files to gain an advantage.

Exploiting = Using in game features in ways they were not intended to by the developers.

[UNDERWORLD 76]

I consider people with better pcs than me cheaters.

[StoutAle 69]

well, considering that there is nighttime in dayz, and you spawn with a flashlight and battery, it is meant to be played at night.

otherwise they wouldnt give you a working flashlight, neither would they have a nighttime brought into the game.

If they wanted you to change the gamma settings to see better at night, they would not have brought it in.

Nighttime fighting is a different kind and those who practise at it, earn to have an advantage in that field.

 

 

I agree it's pretty weak to crank up the gamma, but couldn't someone say "if they didn't want me to change the gamma it wouldn't be available in the night version of games?" it's actually your very own argument (if they give you a flashlight they expect you to use it) isn't it? 

 

I think night should be dark, I think to see you should need a light source unless it's full moon.  With that said it falls under the 3pp for me.  Everyone looks around corners using it so if you don't your handicapping yourself.  Gamma at night works the same.  In game setting that makes it easier (by far) but isn't cheating and is commonly used.

[EngineerZ 46]

I wouldn't say TS is cheating, but I don't recommend using it because it breaks immersion.

 

If you want an intense and realistic experience, talk via Direct Chat. You can only talk with your partner if he's near you, if you're together. It's very intense because you have to care about your talking. If you loot a town, you have to be quiet and whisper with your partner.

 

It would be awesome if everyone talked over Direct Chat. You could also spot other groups of players and stalk them. It's a much more realistic experience and more fun.

 

In my opinion everyone using Teamspeak takes away this cool possible aspect of the game. If you want a nice realistic atmosphere in a zombie apocalypse survival game, use the communication possibilities of the game itself!!!

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I wouldn't say TS is cheating, but I don't recommend using it because it breaks immersion.

 

If you want an intense and realistic experience, talk via Direct Chat. You can only talk with your partner if he's near you, if you're together. It's very intense because you have to care about your talking. If you loot a town, you have to be quiet and whisper with your partner.

 

It would be awesome if everyone talked over Direct Chat. You could also spot other groups of players and stalk them. It's a much more realistic experience and more fun.

 

In my opinion everyone using Teamspeak takes away this cool possible aspect of the game. If you want a nice realistic atmosphere in a zombie apocalypse survival game, use the communication possibilities of the game itself!!!

 

This whole thread is turning into a tear factory. Someone else mentioned this, but I'll say it again:

 

Team Speak ≈ Steam Chat. DayZ runs on Steam, therefore anyone can use it. The only way this could be construed as "unfair" would be if you play solo versus multiple people, but then you're already at a disadvantage. If you have friends too, you can both use Steam Chat/Team Speak and be on a level playing field.

 

TL;DR:

 

Play with friends and profit.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[Magicks 17]

OP it seems you are trying to pick and choose which exploits you consider cheating. And i don't think thats right. Its the same way with laws. The way i see it, every exploit is a cheat, server hopping, lowering gamma radiation, ect. They are all cheating. Does that mean that the severity of one isn't greater? no. But to simply say one exploit isnt a cheat and another is isn't correct.  

 

Drinking underage/smoking weed are things a lot of people consider to be fine and that they shouldnt be against the law. But they are still against the law. Are they as bad as say murder? nope. But theyre still against the law.

 

What i'm trying to say is if you believe exploits=cheats, then all exploits=cheating, you don't get to say well ones not so bad so its not cheating because you're still exploiting it. and yes, i do occasionally use exploits as well. I'm not saying that using them is right. I'm just saying you need to look at how youre justifying it.