Lets discuss what is 'Cheating' and what isn't

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

I'm going to start this thread with a slightly scary story of someone I met, so beware.

 

I'm pretty sure I met this guy on TF2 (His name will remain anonymous), and he was pretty cool. After I figured out he had games like Risk of Rain and Starbound, I naturally played with him. While we were playing Starbound, I tried to trade with him.

He traded an instrument for my instrument, but when I tried to trade him for one of his weapons, which was inferior to him but rather balanced for me, he refused. Why?

 

He considered it CHEATING.

 

This threw me into an argument with him, which allowed me to unearth his (broken) logic-

 

Trading, modding, getting items from friends, that was all cheating to him.

 

Do I agree with him? Hell no.

 

According to this man's logic, anytime your friend gives you some ammunition or bandages you in DayZ, you're cheating. Anytime you trade your M4 for your friend's SKS, you're cheating. Anytime you modify a singleplayer game, like, say, Half Life or Fallout New Vegas, you're CHEATING.

 

It is very obvious that this isn't really cheating to most people and it shouldn't be considered cheating, ever, as mods and player interaction such as trading is a wonderful thing to have in a game that shouldn't be considered an exploit.

 

What am I getting at here?

 

A lot of people seem to consider gamma magic night vision an exploit in DayZ. Is it?

Well, yeah, but at least there is a bit of reason behind using it:

• Everyone can use this exploit as well, easily. Not using it puts yourself at risk.
• The flashlight is currently clunky and hard to use.

Some people seem to consider turning off Post Processing in DayZ makes you an exploiter as well. Do I agree?

Hell no. Yes, let me keep on a setting that adds annoying blur and depth of field when I could play the game without such annoying features. Throw in a forced setting that fucks up your vision when you get shot, though, that would be great.

 

Is there anything you guys consider cheating that others may not consider cheating?

 

btw we all know that server hopping /. combat logging is a serious exploit and that it is a cheat and those who use it should be just a tad ashamed of themselves, just a tad

 

 

 

.

[Atheon 31]

I had some guy shoot me through the floor by glitching through the wall, another guy I can only assume was wall hacking was trying to shoot me through a wall/door for 5 minutes when I thought he was having an epic gun battle. Finally got me through the door and I realized what was going on. 

 

That's cheating. :) 

[=fox= damocles 54]

I have to turn off post processing or kill myself whenever I get badly hurt because the blurriness brings on anything from minor eyestrain to chronic migraines.

All because my already corrected eyesight thinks I've not got my glasses on or lenses in and tries to focus out the blurriness. When in actual fact it isn't caused by my shitty vision to begin with but the game.

 

If you ever want to know what it's like to be badly short sighted in real life like I am ( - 6 on both eyes) , then keep the effects on and let a Zed slap you around a bit. It's fucked up.

 

Back on topic, I think the guy you're talking about has completely missed the point of the social aspect of computer games. Either that or up until recently he's been playing on the Sega Megadrive and only just got his hands on a PC and online gaming and is still learning about it  :P.

Edited February 10, 2014 by =FOX= Damocles

[blissfulkunt 196]

My dad slept with another woman during his and my moms engagement, that's cheating. However if he just would have told her prior to the engagement that he wanted a break, and slept with the other woman, I would consider that not cheating

[sacrdandprofne 100]

Purposefully hacking/server hopping/etc is cheating.

Gamma and TS are not.

[=fox= damocles 54]

My dad slept with another woman during his and my moms engagement, that's cheating. However if he just would have told her prior to the engagement that he wanted a break, and slept with the other woman, I would consider that not cheating

 

I lol'd at the honesty of that statement.

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

TeamSpeak because you can talk to your friends without the danger of other people hearing you, as well as being able to talk to someone on the other side of the country. Everyone who uses it defends it to the death, though, so I doubt any change will be made to remove it.

 

*enters shitstorm bunker*

[Element47 2480]

we tread thin ice here, as this is a controversial topic and both sides of the spectrum tend to get a tad passionate, me inclulded.

 

 

take for example using the (in-)famous dayzdb loot map. is it metagaming? hell yeah. is it making the game easier? definitely. is it taking away a certain experience from the game? is it giving you an advantage over someone who refuses to use it? quite possibly. but is it cheating? not in my books. i shun the loot map, because i have come to enjoy the surprise of my discoveries, and i also search houses which probably never spawn loot. but reading guides - and thats what the map is, a guide - is definitely a completely different matter than using an exploit or script or hack to completely circumvent game mechanics.

 

but some may argue that the borders between guides, shortcuts and exploits are blurred, that everything that is not explicitely part of the game mechanic and makes your game easier, is actually a cheat. gathering information from the forums, talking to your friends over teamspeak, playing in a group instead of experiencing the solitude of a lost survivor stranded in a postapocalyptic wasteland..

 

the issues begin imho, when some players want to impose their limiting, purist view on others. its one thing not trading with others because you want to retain the pure game experience, but its a completely different thing altogether when proposing to remove trade from the game mechanics because one considers it a cheat (to use your trading example)

Edited February 10, 2014 by e47

[Martmital 436]

The answers in the back of maths books.  Knowing they are there is not cheating, looking at em is...

[mercules 1290]

TeamSpeak because you can talk to your friends without the danger of other people hearing you, as well as being able to talk to someone on the other side of the country. Everyone who uses it defends it to the death, though, so I doubt any change will be made to remove it.

 

*enters shitstorm bunker*

Ehem... not all of us who use it defend it to the death. What we point out is that it is UNENFORCABLE to disallow it. Even with ingame systems there is no way to prevent third party communication from being used. I can run skype/Mumble/TS on my tablet and use that with my headphones and no software on my computer will every pick it up so there is no way you can enforce the "no TeamSpeak" system. Look at the community playing who server hop for items and to ghost in behind someone. There is no way they won't abuse third party communication if the rest of us don't.

That being said when in a community that is self enforcing and closed having things like the ACRE system for communication is excellent and fun.

What is cheating. I would say it runs hand in hand with "Exploits". Now, exploits are using something in the game in a manner not intended by the game designers. What does that mean?

Well, Gamma slider was intended to help you set your graphics to a comfortable viewing level. It was not intended to make nights less dark. So is sliding Gamma all the way up cheating? Yes.

The Hive was not intended for people to farm loot, it was so that you could switch to another server if the one you wanted to log into was full or down or something else was going on. It was not intended for people to log out in one spot on one server near loot so they could quickly grab that loot on several other servers or to log out, move around someone, then log back into the first server and shoot them. So both Server Hopping and Ghosting are cheating.

Same thing with modifying your files so the game doesn't draw certain textures fully and gives you a "Wallhack". Same with spawning in items.

[excitable1 156]

TeamSpeak because you can talk to your friends without the danger of other people hearing you, as well as being able to talk to someone on the other side of the country. Everyone who uses it defends it to the death, though, so I doubt any change will be made to remove it.

 

*enters shitstorm bunker*

it is impossible to make these programs cheats as they offer no distinct advantage over another player other then being able to tell their friends your location.

 

even with in game radio's, they should have multiple channels, you would need either a scanner or be lucky enough to be on the same channel as them.

 

therefore ts and ventrillo only offer a slight advantage as a good player knows his surroundings and does not just light a sparkler and run down the middle of the road. 

 

 

also games like this tend to need a good system for speaking with friends. all the police in my area have radio's with ear pieces, plus you can buy them for motorcycles and cell phones.

Edited February 10, 2014 by excitable1

[mercules 1290]

it is impossible to make these programs cheats as they offer no distinct advantage over another player other then being able to tell their friends your location.

 

even with in game radio's, they should have multiple channels, you would need either a scanner or be lucky enough to be on the same channel as them.

 

therefore ts and ventrillo only offer a slight advantage as a good player knows his surroundings and does not just light a sparkler and run down the middle of the road. 

 

Well, there are systems that don't let you speak without it coming through in Direct Chat in the game. So if you talk on your radio it broadcasts to the channel you are on but also says it out loud locally. TS/Mumble obviously bypass these in game systems. There is a whisper mode in most of those so you can quietly speak in your local and hope it comes through right on the radio but it reduces the radio volume as well so.... 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Server hopping is definitely cheating, the gamma thing, more of an exploit than a cheat and well, only bad players need to exploit or cheat.  Nuff said

[hypermoon 75]

It's cheating if it intentionally avoids the restrictions set by the game. Seeing in the dark because you use gamma is a way of circumventing night. I mean what is the fucking point, might as well play in the day time 24/7 because I know other people have their gamma turned way up. Sure everyone can do it but that totally defeats the intention of the game. What's the point of even having nighttime.

 

TeamSpeak is another area. Yeah not everyone uses it for tactical advantage I know, but the fact remains that some people do.

 

Peeking around corners in third person. One of the reasons I don't like playing on anything but a hardcore server, which is unfortunate because I really like third person.

 

Personally if it cheats the intention of the game, it's cheating.

[Demoth 366]

I have to put Post Processing on very low because it murders my FPS.

[larky2k 9]

The only reason me and my mate have our gamma turned all the way up is night is black i.e is we can see shit. you as a player can stand right in front of us and we can't see you. We can't see outlines of buildings. With the gamma turned up trees and building and people become black, sky is a light grey and the ground is a dark grey. we cant tell between a moving zombie and a moving player when like this. So turning the gamma up makes it barely playable for us rather than not playable when normal. Before you say use the flashlight. like hell we are going to give our position away to bandits we like surviving.  :P

[hypermoon 75]

and thats what everyone else does. So what is the point? Join a day server if you want to see without a flashlight. Real night is pitch fucking black except the sky.

[mercules 1290]

Sorry, but sliding Gamma up IS cheating. That being said it is a very minor cheat and most players do it. However, it is using something against the intent of the development of the game. If they wanted the night to be lighter, they would have might nighttime lighter. So, if we have to go by a strict definition, it is cheating. Third party VOIP is used by the developers of the game so that becomes a more grey area. 

[Wiggin Miller 21]

The guy had a point honestly.

While it wasn't cheating, he was a purist.

Most games I play, I try alone for the first time, then if its fun, I invite my friends to play.

While they are playing, I don't instantly give them excess gold/better gear/ etc.

I worked my way from the bottom, so should they. The world is a harsh place.You aren't getting handouts here. Its like the teach a man to fish analogy.

*Edit*

You're bandaging argument is null because that's not getting something now which should normally take time to get.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Wiggin Miller

[Grimey Rick 3417]

TeamSpeak because you can talk to your friends without the danger of other people hearing you, as well as being able to talk to someone on the other side of the country. Everyone who uses it defends it to the death, though, so I doubt any change will be made to remove it.

 

*enters shitstorm bunker*

 

Since you brought up an old argument, let me bring up an old rebuttal. (; My wife that plays DayZ sits at her computer right beside mine during our gaming sessions. We don't use Steam Chat when we're playing with just the two of us, as we are... right beside each other. Is that considered cheating, too? The next time she screams at me to give her some food, should I just ignore her? Or perhaps I should look lovingly into her eyes and remind her that we're in a very serious game with such strict rules and parameters that talking to her while connected to this Matrix-like product would result in a wall of flame from many butt-hurt forum sheriffs? Yeah, I'm sure the latter would go over really fucking well.

[mgc 92]

I agree with larky here.

I have my gamma almost all the way up and on a cloudy or moonless night i can only see treetops and rooflines.

I literally walked into a Z the other day (night).

I have to use a lightsource to be able to spot loot and because there is no lightrefraction, im limited to a 2 inch circle. but pre-alpha, so meh.

I think the general idea of the gamma setting is to allow for lower light levels if desired and that all the way up is considered normal.

I think the sky should be darker and the ground slighty more lit, btw.

oh, and is there a hotkey for toggeling that headtorch?

 

Turning up gamma is not cheating.

 

Trading:

I dont consider trading or gifts cheating if the items are legit (so not obtained by server hopping or looted from a corpse you ghosted.).

 

Visionblur:

I agree it is annoying. Even after being healthy for a long time, stuff is still blurred over distances of more than a couple meters. Im also aware of the headache problem when looking at a screen that is not quite crisp. It costs a lot of energy to look at a screen like that. imo visionblur should be tweaked untill we have crisp vision on semi-full health, (There might be other (distance) effects contributing to the blur btw.) and  the option to turn it off should be removed once the problems have been fixed.

[sacrdandprofne 100]

I should also note that when outside under starry, moonlight sky, you can actually see fairly well. Especially in the country with little/no light pollution. It's not pitch black. Having gamma about halfway is pretty close to real life; this is why I don't consider it cheating.

Edited February 11, 2014 by sacrdandprofne

[GoldenKade 73]

TeamSpeak because you can talk to your friends without the danger of other people hearing you, as well as being able to talk to someone on the other side of the country. Everyone who uses it defends it to the death, though, so I doubt any change will be made to remove it.

 

*enters shitstorm bunker*

So you're trying to say TS is cheating?

[GoldenKade 73]

Since you brought up an old argument, let me bring up an old rebuttal. (; My wife that plays DayZ sits at her computer right beside mine during our gaming sessions. We don't use Steam Chat when we're playing with just the two of us, as we are... right beside each other. Is that considered cheating, too? The next time she screams at me to give her some food, should I just ignore her? Or perhaps I should look lovingly into her eyes and remind her that we're in a very serious game with such strict rules and parameters that talking to her while connected to this Matrix-like product would result in a wall of flame from many butt-hurt forum sheriffs? Yeah, I'm sure the latter would go over really fucking well.

One of your most valid points.

[sabaka (DayZ) 70]

Teamspeak is clearly cheating. As stated it allows you to communicate without being in close proximity to someone. Additionally texting or messaging your friends to ask them if they want to play with you is cheating. Running places is a huge focus of this game. If you want to play with your real life friends you need to run to their house (in real life), let them know you're going to get on when you get back, then run home. Otherwise you alert them that you're going to be online, and possibly tell them where your character is in game and on what server, without letting their roommates or spouses or other people in their house hear you and what you're doing. This gives you a tactical advantage.