Played on a 1st Person server last night...

[libertine 351]

It was brilliant.

 

After playing in 3rd person in the mod and SA up till now, with only a few tries of 1st here and there mainly due to low 1st server populations (and a lack of trying to find high pop servers on my end) I finally saw the light. Its really really different, in ways which didn't quite occur to me until i spent a good amount of time with it. Heres a couple good examples.

 

-I was going through the [new] western apartment area and was at the hospitals/tech building, on the north/east corner of the south building up on the little slope. I heard a gun and rustling noise that seemed directional and it sounded like it was coming from the west. It seemed close and contact seemed like it was imminent or had already happened. So my first thought is to look for some cover and/or a hiding spot and start scanning that direction. I don't KOS unless im doing the coastal D-Day re-enactment over there with the other aging WWII veterans, so its better to avoid being seen, at least initially. I then see an overturned pickup truck on its side in-between myself and the noise which looks like good cover. I start moving towards it trying to see what i can in 1st person. This is the first point at which i notice i can't see jack s**t [more than i should] in 1st, i can't see much and i don't see anyone. This is also the point where it hammered home fact that if i haven't seen them, they haven't seen me yet and that was a great feeling. I got behind the pickup truck and an another great thing happened -I had no fucking clue what was going on. The fucking truck was in my way. Normally, i'd just use 3rd and see just about everything, instantly. Here i had to sit and let things develop/or not, deciding when and how to look out from cover not knowing what was coming. It might seem like you were more vulnerable, but i've noticed i actually feel safer when im careful, not in a bad way, its being rewarded for being cautious and the more cautious you transverse the environment, the more rewarded you are, which is authentically realistic, enhancing believability and thus hopefully immersion and enjoyment. It was also satisfying because i was in a spot that no one would likely be going past and no one would spot me with a flying eye-in-the-sky whirling around eight feet above them catching glimpse of me in the lower trench i was in.

 

-Going through Cherno and the aforementioned apartments was very different in a good way too. I was able to glance up at the usual sniper spots in Cherno and the tops of the apartments north of balota/Cherno and know, realistically that there wasn't anyone there or in the case of the tops of buildings with cover, know that no one was currently looking my way (now time to move across open ground, etc). Lovely...  Again, rewarding realistically cautious play -which in turn rewards immersion. Because its actually easier to look around in 3rd person out apt windows while zoomed in IMO, usually its nerve racking to go through the apartments because someone could pop up at any time, someone you can't possibly detect under cover.

 

-Small thing, but i found after raising the FOV to a more realistic level that i was more in touch with things in front of me, like I started noticing the detail in things. On the other hand there are probably a lot of low res textures in store for me...

 

Some fixable issues that i think would skyrocket enjoyment in 1st person mode. I think it needs a little help, because if i, as a realism junky can stand 3rd, i think it may be hard for normal players to dig it.

 

1. Fluid movement. Movement is clunky now and that it is going to be worked on, but i fear they may not take it far enough. Also, a lot of people exclaim that movement shouldn't be too easy as so many other and they are right IMO, but there is a lot of room for improvement and a lot of people don't consider how easy certain movements are for humans. Its not that it shouldn't be realistically difficult, its that the difficulty is slightly put in the wrong areas. For example, walking to a dead end in a narrow hallway in real life instead of turning around fully and walking out, you would walk out by leaning back, shifting your weight backwards

 

2. Precise lean control. If you are going to poke your head out around corners, at least give us the ability to control it so that it is slower. As it is now, it is too quick/jerky and give a lot of chance to be seen, when a in real life dangerous situation you would slowly peak out and just enough to see what you need to. Now you must jerk outward and if it wasn't enough, you go back up, then jerk outward again, and again and again if needed.

 

3. Lean out forward to look out windows, over edges. I think this would make the movement and the virtual world feel much more organic and real, not to mention interesting/fun to look straight down off of high places.

 

4. Arma 3 raise up stance. I don't know what you call it, in Arma 3 where you can go up on your toes as high as you can to look over stuff. Self explanatory. Maybe the ability to move stuff over and peek up over walls

 

5. Sneak movement mode. Movement is a key element of spotting things and because the existing movement animations are so fast, especially the acceleration into movement, even the slow ones, it would be so nice to have an even slower mode that would very much enhance the realism of sneaking around. The thing is the current slow mode animations ARE appropriate much of the time as it is, but not so much when the danger is imminent.

 

6. Turning and head panning speed. I think it is just too uncomfortable and unrealistic to have both body turning speed and panning speeds that slow, at all times. When your armed, the speed is fine . But with no weapons your panning speeds are too slow in most situations, especially head movement alone, considering that in real life your head and eyes are working together. As a side note: aiming difficulty could be harder while making panning/looking faster, using more gun/arm momentum, wind, etc.

 

7. Head bob. From modding head bob in games like Doom 3 and others, i've spent some time examining head bob in real life and i found that i don't really notice it outside of jogging slowly with a heavy pack. Its my guess that evolution has evolved us into not paying attention to it, focusing on important things like not tripping on things and poking our eyes out on tree limbs, finding prey, etc, but thats another forum. What i've found is that there is more of a sudden, quick, screen shake or tiny blur that occurs when planting the feet and the actually bobbing of the head is not noticed. Battlefield 2142 did running particularly well here, blurriness the screen ever so slightly with each foot plant with a barely perceptible bob. The amount should differ based on speed. Like riding a horse, the walk and gallop are much more comfortable than the annoying up/down trot. Same thing for motorcycles, my GSXR 600 is smooth riding at its top speed of 142'ish than at 100 or below.

 

8. Head bob when running. In real life, the faster you run the less head bob you have. In the game, its more so. Again, Battlefield 2142's example is the right way to go, IMO.

 

9. Aiming straight down/up. At the moment it is not possible. I think it would feel a little more organic if we could do this.

 

Bringing over some missed aspects of 3rd person:

 

10.Looking at your clothing better - I really miss not seeing my clothing. I can sort of see it if i go into the weapon-up pose and look down. I think if the menu system properly showed what your character looked it i would be much better. Right now the lighting on clothing in the menu is very very different and i go into 3PP to really see what clothing looks like.

 

11. Seeing your gun better - Another nice thing about 3rd person is seeing your weapon from different angles, the menu angles are nice, but i think it would really REALLY benefit 1st person if you had a key to examine the gun, moving it around, from side to side (rolling over) as much as you can with your hands still on the trigger and hand guards. They have done this already in a few other games.

 

Holy wall of text, no one is going to read this. Hope it fuckin made sense. Oh, good time to tell you about my sexual relationship with your mom...and her love of anal, muahahahahaha....

Edited January 25, 2014 by Thane

[Furtherado 100]

Nice post, i completely agree, don`t care about the TL;DRers, it`s a forum after all, if they don`t like to read they should go do something else instead.

[Intactus 128]

Good post. Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well...

For seeing your player geared up: Why don't they give us option to inspect the player itself? That could work as a free camera (a bit like 3rd person view)  in current environment with some zoom/pan/player controls or something like that... You could pose for the screenshot and view you player in it's current environment and when you move of fire, for example, it's back to the menu.

 

edit: Or atleast give us the option to view our mighty survivor properly on the main screen if not during the actual game. (no 3rd person exploiting)

Edited January 25, 2014 by Intactus

[wild_man 4442]

is always interest for me to see reaction of guys who trying 3PP:OFF :beans:

 

is look like you enjoy experience and also you notice is some issue :)

 

what you saying about issues for this mode is true, 1st person need improve is not perfect but reward for play this way make problems seem small for me

 

is like anything more you doing easier is become and less you notice problem :thumbsup:  ;)

[Ken Bean 174]

Well maybe it's a new experience to join a 1st person locked server the first time, but in my experience it's getting old, boring and oppressive (due to limitations) very soon. Everyone has their favours after all.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Ken Bean

[shagohad 124]

welcome to the fold.

 

Im not sure if you are saying you want head bob? Or just a better headbob. I just turn that shit off, it gets tiresome over time.  

 

Movement could be done better, I played on a dayZ Redux mod server that was 1st person and used ST_movement which dramatically improved handling indoors. I suspect a fix like that would not be difficult. 

[G-h0p 40]

You can see yourself if you pull up your inventory, you can even rotate your guys 360deg by holding the left mouse button and moving the mouse.

 

Good post, and leave my mom alone. :)

[timoseewho 23]

i agree with you about 1st person servers, but man if i had a dollar for anyone who was brave enough to come out and say about how they hate 1st person servers

[louist 163]

Good suggestions all around.

[Atomizer 53]

Some fixable issues that i think would skyrocket enjoyment in 1st person mode. I think it needs a little help, because if i, as a realism junky can stand 3rd, i think it may be hard for normal players to dig it.

 

1. Fluid movement. Movement is clunky now and that it is going to be worked on, but i fear they may not take it far enough. Also, a lot of people exclaim that movement shouldn't be too easy as so many other and they are right IMO, but there is a lot of room for improvement and a lot of people don't consider how easy certain movements are for humans. Its not that it shouldn't be realistically difficult, its that the difficulty is slightly put in the wrong areas. For example, walking to a dead end in a narrow hallway in real life instead of turning around fully and walking out, you would walk out by leaning back, shifting your weight backwards

 

2. Precise lean control. If you are going to poke your head out around corners, at least give us the ability to control it so that it is slower. As it is now, it is too quick/jerky and give a lot of chance to be seen, when a in real life dangerous situation you would slowly peak out and just enough to see what you need to. Now you must jerk outward and if it wasn't enough, you go back up, then jerk outward again, and again and again if needed.

 

3. Lean out forward to look out windows, over edges. I think this would make the movement and the virtual world feel much more organic and real, not to mention interesting/fun to look straight down off of high places.

 

4. Arma 3 raise up stance. I don't know what you call it, in Arma 3 where you can go up on your toes as high as you can to look over stuff. Self explanatory. Maybe the ability to move stuff over and peek up over walls

 

5. Sneak movement mode. Movement is a key element of spotting things and because the existing movement animations are so fast, especially the acceleration into movement, even the slow ones, it would be so nice to have an even slower mode that would very much enhance the realism of sneaking around. The thing is the current slow mode animations ARE appropriate much of the time as it is, but not so much when the danger is imminent.

 

6. Turning and head panning speed. I think it is just too uncomfortable and unrealistic to have both body turning speed and panning speeds that slow, at all times. When your armed, the speed is fine . But with no weapons your panning speeds are too slow in most situations, especially head movement alone, considering that in real life your head and eyes are working together. As a side note: aiming difficulty could be harder while making panning/looking faster, using more gun/arm momentum, wind, etc.

 

7. Head bob. From modding head bob in games like Doom 3 and others, i've spent some time examining head bob in real life and i found that i don't really notice it outside of jogging slowly with a heavy pack. Its my guess that evolution has evolved us into not paying attention to it, focusing on important things like not tripping on things and poking our eyes out on tree limbs, finding prey, etc, but thats another forum. What i've found is that there is more of a sudden, quick, screen shake or tiny blur that occurs when planting the feet and the actually bobbing of the head is not noticed. Battlefield 2142 did running particularly well here, blurriness the screen ever so slightly with each foot plant with a barely perceptible bob. The amount should differ based on speed. Like riding a horse, the walk and gallop are much more comfortable than the annoying up/down trot. Same thing for motorcycles, my GSXR 600 is smooth riding at its top speed of 142'ish than at 100 or below.

 

8. Head bob when running. In real life, the faster you run the less head bob you have. In the game, its more so. Again, Battlefield 2142's example is the right way to go, IMO.

 

9. Aiming straight down/up. At the moment it is not possible. I think it would feel a little more organic if we could do this.

 

Bringing over some missed aspects of 3rd person:

 

10.Looking at your clothing better - I really miss not seeing my clothing. I can sort of see it if i go into the weapon-up pose and look down. I think if the menu system properly showed what your character looked it i would be much better. Right now the lighting on clothing in the menu is very very different and i go into 3PP to really see what clothing looks like.

 

11. Seeing your gun better - Another nice thing about 3rd person is seeing your weapon from different angles, the menu angles are nice, but i think it would really REALLY benefit 1st person if you had a key to examine the gun, moving it around, from side to side (rolling over) as much as you can with your hands still on the trigger and hand guards. They have done this already in a few other games.

 

Holy wall of text, no one is going to read this. Hope it fuckin made sense. Oh, good time to tell you about my sexual relationship with your mom...and her love of anal, muahahahahaha....

 

1. Completely agree, the biggest issue in my opinion is the mouse movement, it should be a 1:1 mouse ratio, and I believe that will happen down the road, though it is not as simple as flicking a switch(otherwise it would probably be done already).

The only other issue I have really encountered is the "getting stuck in doorways" issue, you have to head straight through the door, you can't really move out sideways to ensure you aren't giving yourself up to another player.

 

2. The way I generally do corners is holding lean, and inch out using a/d, not by holding and releasing lean, tapping a/d and holding lean again, it gives the same effect in my opinion as slowly inching out.

 

3. I am able to stand at a window, look to my left or right, then lean out appropriately, which can help in seeing down somewhat as well, not sure if it really needs another hotkey for lean forwards, though I have seen games that have lean forwards/backwards, it is just generally not required(though that is my opinion, and wouldn't be opposed to such a feature, just probably wouldn't use it)

 

4. I am all for the ArmA3 stance system, being able to shift all the way from prone to fully standing up in smaller increments, not sure how complicated that would be to integrate into SA however, especially if they haven't already been planning for it, once the animations are in place, there is a lot more work involved in more stances for all actions(shooting, swapping weapons, transitions to other stances, leaning, moving).

Granted, they could do a semi stance system, where you can shift into the stances while stationary, but to perform other actions it has to transition into one of the 3 existing stances that are already fully animated....sub-par solution so I don't see this happening, so lets hope for a full stance system(it doesn't even need as many stances as ArmA3!).

 

 

6. I believe this is related to the 1:1 mouse ratio, as you can get faster turning speeds by upping sensitivity, the issue is the mouse handling isn't smooth and has acceleration / negative acceleration .

 

7. Head bob can actually be turned off, and you can adjust it to whatever setting you feel most comfortable with, effects per step might be cool, but I haven't experienced it to say one way or the other, my thoughts on it are it is a bad idea, but as I said, would have to see it in action.

 

9. I personally don't see the need for this, even at the high rises with me on the ground outside and my target on the roof, there is a certain point when getting closer, that rather then shooting(mostly because of concealment), I would rather just clear into the building, rather then sitting at the bottom trying to shoot.

I also don't imagine it being very natural shooting up/down beyond a certain angle, that is not something I have ever experienced though, but from in game experience, I haven't encountered a time when I needed to fire further up/down(again, my opinion/experience).

 

10. Can't say I understand this one too well(the reason for needing to see the clothing under the same lighting conditions that is), and for me seeing it in the inventory is enough(or at the main menu), I am not against the inventory screen being an exact duplicate of what is rendered(including lighting) in the game world, just not overly important to me(there is that pesky opinion again).

 

11. There is the inspect option to view any item including weapons, which will let you view different angles then you can see in first person, otherwise, you can get a decent look at your gun in first person, I dunno, guess that is another one of my opinions, and the last for this post, yay!

[sg3 14]

I really can't enjoy 1PP because the camera is placed too low for my feelings. When I'm in high grass, I can't see shit because it's almost coming up to my eyes. On the other side People can see me from far away because the grass isn't even rendered. I think the camera should be placed like 10cm higher. Anybody else struggling from this?

[Furtherado 100]

I really can't enjoy 1PP because the camera is placed too low for my feelings. When I'm in high grass, I can't see shit because it's almost coming up to my eyes. On the other side People can see me from far away because the grass isn't even rendered. I think the camera should be placed like 10cm higher. Anybody else struggling from this?

 Grass should be forced to render at far greater distances, make it super-low quality at ranges greater than 200m or whatever, should still be green 8-bit stilks sticking up from the ground to hide you so you don`t feel like a dumbass crawling through tall grass.

[fig0451 85]

If you have TrackIR, you can have more precise control over leaning.

[Atomizer 53]

 Grass should be forced to render at far greater distances, make it super-low quality at ranges greater than 200m or whatever, should still be green 8-bit stilks sticking up from the ground to hide you so you don`t feel like a dumbass crawling through tall grass.

 

 

From this interview: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/22/an-unexpected-journey-the-life-and-dead-of-dayzs-chernarus/

 

 

DET: And grass? How do you avoid the thing where, if you hide in grass that’s only rendered so far, you can’t see your enemy but they can see you?

Buchta: Well, in the distance the grass is rendered as an additional layer into which you can sink. It’s not perfect but it’s working to some degree. All I can say is that we also play DayZ and we see these problems. These aren’t just rants on the forums but problems we also meet. Sometimes the solution is easy, sometimes it’s quite complex. Some people may get the impression we’re not doing anything with that but it’s not true. Usually, if it’s a major thing which has influence on many aspects of the technology but is tricky to change, it’s undergoing lots of discussion in the company. Then, when we’re ready and are sure the change will be beneficial, we do it.

We can’t just jump on everything that people don’t like and start working on it. We have our own development plans, and while people might rather we ‘fixed this first’ than implement some new feature, we’re aware of these reactions and aren’t trying to dodge these things. But we need some internal priorities for producing the game because there’s a bigger plan, and sometimes it’s easier to just let it be for now and make a more substantial change later on, and prepare the engine to fix a particular issue. It’s something people don’t always get.

 

You can still generally assume if you're prone in the open, that people in the distance can see you, but it seems they have at least looked into the issue, and more might be done in the future.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I must admit to having a similar experience.

 

I have always had an initial dislike of the 1PP. Not sure exactly why, but it never felt right for some reason. Despite this the other day I joined a 3PP off server and gave it a go. After a little while I decided I actually preferred the feel of playing in 1st person. I felt really sucked in. It might have been because I decided to turn the head bob right down (something I'd never bothered with before), that made it tolerable, I dunno.

 

But I'd like to say that I was wrong about 1PP and I will now be playing on 1PP servers only. However as someone that has been a 3PP'er before I will not be giving them any stick :) but I would urge them to try it after turning the head bob off.

[djporternz 644]

+1 Me too!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Y87lGClps

 

A couple of observations, if I may:

 

1) Very boring video, sorry. No other players encountered, but thankfully short because of hitting a server reset.

2) Took me a while to re-adjust to the controls. Not so much the controls, TBH, but the change in viewpoint.

3) TBH, I didn't feel any more or less immersed in the game than in 3PP. I did feel a lot more annoyance when hitting the hard limits of the RV2.5 engine. Stance Adjustment, a la ArmA 3, please.

 

After reconnecting to the server, had a few PvP interactions: (I forgot to restart the vid recorder, so sorry, no vid)

 

1) KoS'd: 0 times

2) Held Up: 1 time. No handcuffs or burlap sacks. Bandit placated with a can opener, canteen, bag of rice and two tins of sardines. Left me with my backpack, clothes and allowed me to keep my med-kit sans bandages. Nice guy, apart from the Magnum pointing at my head the whole time.

3) Ignored: 1 time. Funny story that. Posted in another thread: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/168329-stop-and-listen-or-die/

 

Other than that, a caveat I hope you'll grant me:

 

o) Video of a single player with no PvP interaction is extremely dull when watched. 3PP definantly has a place here, just from a videography standpoint. After all, there is a reason most films aren't generally shot in 1PP exclusively.

[bazvink 8]

...

 

2. Precise lean control. If you are going to poke your head out around corners, at least give us the ability to control it so that it is slower. As it is now, it is too quick/jerky and give a lot of chance to be seen, when a in real life dangerous situation you would slowly peak out and just enough to see what you need to. Now you must jerk outward and if it wasn't enough, you go back up, then jerk outward again, and again and again if needed.

...

 

Regarding this, what you could try is double-tapping the "Q" or "E" keys (or whatever you have mapped to leaning). If you double-tap (same as when sprinting), it "locks" your player in the lean mode. Then you can slowly side-step to carefully peak around corners. Or you can also press and hold the lean key.

 

I don't think this is exactly what you're looking for, but it may be a start.

 

I'm slowly moving to hardcore servers myself, but still finding it hard to kick the 3rd person habit.

[libertine 351]

Bed time man, ill have a look tomorrow.

 

2. Precise lean control. If you are going to poke your head out around corners, at least give us the ability to control it so that it is slower. As it is now, it is too quick/jerky and give a lot of chance to be seen, when a in real life dangerous situation you would slowly peak out and just enough to see what you need to. Now you must jerk outward and if it wasn't enough, you go back up, then jerk outward again, and again and again if needed.

 

Holy...., Did i type that crap?

[soulfirez 901]

using a controller or foot pedals will allow precise leaning ( bind to analog stick or to pedal depression ) track ir also allows this.

 

But generally a good post glad your finding some joy playing in 1st person it has its flaws but over all the experience is greater people just shy away from losing there 3rd view. Having the periscope changes how you play the game even if you think your not using it to look over things you will do it subconciously...

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Would be nice to have some mirrors to attach to items to peek around corners too :D

 

but then again this is probably a fantasy at this point in time lol

[Zedicologist 162]

I only play on 1st person servers, its alot more challenging and more immersive.  If only they would fix the mouse problems it would be so much better.    

[dickflip 15]

I agree with implementing a similar stance system to ARMA 3. I originally thought having all those different positions was incredibly gimmicky until I actually played the game. You use them a lot more than first thought, and it makes cover-to-cover combat flow so much better.

[6The6Count6 28]

Agreed completely,i to feel "safer", everyone is on the same level, its fair as fair can be.
 

I've only been killed twice legitimately on 1st person severs in combat, it rewards careful play.

 

Had a 3 day old character geared out won loads of battles with went to a 3rd person server and died (me and my 2 mates) within 10 mins by a lad who came out of no where casually gunning us down, its nearly like cheating.

 

Anyway 1st person is where its at.

[Chawktah 43]

It's true, first person gives you a more immersive experience and helps level the playing field. It also changes the player combat dynamics. I like to play both, and feel like combat in 3rd person servers is much more 1 sided. Players sit for long periods out of view to others and gain a huge advantage. That's why i feel that 3rd person servers have more KOS incidents, while Fps or Hardcore servers have a healthy mix

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

From this interview: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/22/an-unexpected-journey-the-life-and-dead-of-dayzs-chernarus/

 

 

You can still generally assume if you're prone in the open, that people in the distance can see you, but it seems they have at least looked into the issue, and more might be done in the future.

Player rendering shouldn't go any further than landscape rendering.  Don't get me wrong it's awesome to spot someone a 1000m out but it's pointless when you can't even hide.  And for people who want to cheat and change their grass rendering, it should effect the player rendering as well.